51 1 want to ask the questions. You're going far 2 beyond any legitimate assertion of 3 attorney/client privilege here. 4 BY MR. KLAYMAN: 5 Q I'm going to show you what has been 6 provided to me by your counsel this morning 7 called Response to Plaintiffs' Notice of 8 Deposition Duces Tecum to Mr. Tom Janenda, 9 and we'll just take a two-minute break so we 10 can make copies of that. 11 Going off record at 9:57 Eastern 12 Standard Time. 13 (Recess) 14 VIDEO TECHNICIAN: We're back on 15 video record at 10:02 a.m. 16 MR. KLAYMAN: Eastern Standard 17 Time. 18 VIDEO TECHNICIAN: Eastern Standard 19 Time. 20 MR. KLAYMAN: I showy you what I'll 21 ask the court reporter to mark as Exhibit 2. 22 (Janenda Deposition Exhibit 52 1 No. 2 was marked for 2 identification.) 3 BY MR. KLAYMAN: 4 Q Showing you Exhibit 2, Mr. Janenda, 5 take an opportunity to look at this and tell 6 me if you've ever seen it before, Exhibit 2, 7 Response to Plaintiffs' Notice of Deposition 8 Duces Tecum to Mr. Tom Janenda? 9 A Yes, sir. 10 Q When did you see it? 11 A Over the course of yesterday and 12 this morning. 13 Q Did you review the contents of this 14 document? 15 A Yes, sir. 16 Q Who did you review it with? 17 MS. GILES: You can answer. 18 THE WITNESS: With my counsel. 19 BY MR. KLAYMAN: 20 Q Did you approve what's written in 21 this document? 22 A Yes, sir. 53 1 Q Let go back to Exhibit 1. You see 2 where after the first page, first it notes 3 your deposition and then it says, "Exhibit A, 4 Instructions"? 5 A Yes, sir. 6 Q Did you yourself review the 7 instructions and then the following 8 definitions as to what constitutes a document 9 in terms of being able to produce information 10 here today? 11 A Yes, sir. 12 Q Who did you review that with? 13 A Myself and I believe at some point 14 counsel. 15 Q What is your understanding of what 16 constitutes a document in terms of producing 17 information to Judicial Watch? 18 A Whatever definition I've read in 19 here. 20 Q Well, I want you to tell me now 21 what your understanding is. Please don't 22 look at it. I just want to know what you 54 1 understand right now. 2 A I'm not a lawyer. I read it, you 3 know. I paid attention to it. You know, I 4 don't know, I mean, anything about documents, 5 as defined in your material that I read 6 carefully. 7 Q Tell me what your understanding is 8 that you had to produce? 9 A All of the material that is 10 requested in this document. 11 Q How is the document defined, 12 roughly speaking? 13 A Anything I produced in my computer, 14 anything that's in my files, anything that's 15 in my E-mail. I mean I read this carefully 16 and that's my recollection of what it is. 17 Q Did you go through each document 18 request one by one? 19 A Yes, certainly I reviewed them, 20 yes. 21 Q And did you search for document 22 requests one by one? For each request did 55 1 you search for documents? 2 A I mean I believe I -- yeah, I mean 3 I did not -- on the advice of -- 4 MS. GILES: Don't talk about the 5 advice your counsel gave you, but other than 6 anything counsel said to you -- 7 THE WITNESS: I went through -- I 8 spent a great amount of time going through 9 looking for responsive documents. 10 BY MR. KLAYMAN: 11 Q Did anyone help you to look for 12 responsive documents? 13 A No, I searched myself. And to be 14 clear, I also, for sake of time purposes in 15 getting through all the material, I had -- I 16 asked on people on my staff to also search 17 their own files and directories so that I 18 could answer for my office. 19 Q Who did you ask to search your 20 files and directories. 21 A Everyone in my office, my staff. 22 Q Who was that? 56 1 A Glen Weiner, Robin Bachman. 2 Q How is that spelled? 3 A B-A-C-H-M-A-N. 4 Q And what's her position? 5 A Researcher. 6 Q Who else? 7 A One other person who just started 8 this week, Rajiv Mody. 9 Q M-O? 10 A D-Y. 11 Q D-Y. And what's his position? 12 A Junior research. 13 Q Are you the head of office? 14 A Correct, of the communications 15 research office, yes. 16 Q That's the formal name, 17 communications research office? 18 A Correct. 19 Q Is there anyone else that works in 20 that office? 21 A No, sir, other than interns. 22 Q What interns have worked in that 57 1 office over the last year? 2 A I couldn't begin to tell you. 3 Q Do you remember any of them? 4 A I don't. Again, beyond some first 5 names, I couldn't tell you. 6 Q Let's hear the first names. 7 A Claire is the only one I remember. 8 Q Do you know if she's still there? 9 A I believe she is, yeah. 10 Q Do you remember her last name? 11 A I do not. 12 Q How long have you been head of that 13 office? 14 A Since, I would say, mid summer of 15 last year, 1997. 16 Q Who was the head of the office 17 before that? 18 A Ann Walker. 19 Q Is there an E at the end of Ann? 20 A I don't believe so. 21 Q Where is she located today, 22 professionally speaking? 58 1 A She works at the White house. 2 Q What's her position? 3 A I couldn't speak for her. I 4 believe she's in communications. That's all 5 I know. 6 Q Who does she work for in 7 communications? 8 A Communications director. 9 Q Who is? 10 A Ann Lewis. 11 Q What are her duties and 12 responsibilities for Ann Lewis? 13 A For Ann Lewis? 14 Q For Ann Lewis. 15 A I can't answer for her. 16 Q Based on your knowledge. 17 A To my knowledge, she's the 18 communications director for the President -- 19 for the office. She runs the office of 20 communications. 21 Q Ann Lewis? 22 A Correct. 59 1 Q But what does Ann Walker do for Ann 2 Lewis? What are her duties and 3 responsibilities? 4 A I don't know. I don't work with 5 her. I don't know what her responsibilities 6 are. 7 Q Now, tell me who had what division 8 of responsibility between you, Robin Bachman 9 and Rajiv Mody to look for documents 10 responsive to Judicial Watch's Notice of 11 Deposition Duces Tecum, which is Exhibit 1. 12 How did you divide up the responsibility to 13 search for those documents? 14 A I did the bulk of it myself. I 15 personally reviewed all of the hard files and 16 all of my own personal electronic files and 17 -- 18 Q What hard files did you review? 19 Just your computer? 20 A Hard files are not, to my 21 definition computer files, so, no, I wouldn't 22 say. 60 1 Q What I'm trying to say, did you 2 have a meeting with these people where you 3 divided up who was going to do what aspect of 4 the document search? 5 A No, sir. 6 Q How was it conveyed as to who was 7 to do what? 8 A As I said, I anything that was 9 office wide files or hard files or my own 10 personal files I reviewed myself and -- and 11 then I asked Robin Bachman and Rajiv to 12 search their own electronic files and hard 13 files for information without explaining. 14 Q Did you finish? 15 A That was it. 16 Q How do you define a hard file? 17 What is a hard file? 18 A My definition of a hard file is a 19 piece of paper or something that exists that 20 you can pick up. 21 Q Where are those files kept in the 22 office? 61 1 A Throughout the office. 2 Q Are there specific filing cabinets? 3 A Yes. 4 Q Whose filing cabinets are they kept 5 in? 6 A I don't understand the question. 7 Q Are the filing cabinets assigned to 8 a particular person in the office or are they 9 for general use? 10 A The majority of them are general 11 use. 12 Q And where is your office located? 13 What's the number of the room or rooms where 14 it's located? 15 A Suite 197 of the Old Executive 16 Office Building. 17 Q Is there more than one office in 18 that suite? 19 A Yes, sir. 20 Q Who has offices in that suite? 21 A Myself, Robin Bachman, Glen Weiner, 22 Ann Walker and Brenda Costello. 62 1 Q So Ann Walker, even though she 2 works for Ann Lewis, has an office in your 3 suite? 4 A Correct. In Suite 197, correct. 5 Q And who is the last person you just 6 mentioned? Ms. Costello? 7 A Yes. 8 Q What is her position? 9 A I couldn't really answer for her, 10 as to what her position is. I don't know. 11 Q Well, based on your understanding, 12 what does she do? 13 A I don't know what she does. I 14 don't. I mean to my knowledge, she works for 15 the First Lady. 16 Q In what capacity? 17 A Again, I -- you're asking me to 18 speculate on what someone else's job is? 19 MS. GILES: What does she -- 20 BY MR. KLAYMAN: 21 Q No, I'm not asking you to speculate 22 and, besides, you can speculate. This is 63 1 discovery. It doesn't mean it's coming into 2 evidence. 3 I'm asking you based upon what your 4 understanding is why is she there in that 5 suite? 6 A She works for the First Lady. I 7 can't say. I don't know. 8 Q And you have interaction with her 9 from time to time, do you not? 10 A I say hello. I know her. I pass 11 her in the office and we exchange 12 pleasantries, yes. 13 Q What's the name of your suite? 14 A 197. 15 Q And what's the formal title? 16 A I don't know that there is one. 17 There may be. I don't know if there's a 18 plaque on the door or outside the door, but 19 it's, basically -- 20 Q Have you ever asked why is 21 Ms. Costello here? 22 A No. 64 1 Q Now, you sometimes share with 2 Ms. Costello don't you? 3 A I can't remember an occasion where 4 I did, no. 5 Q Others on your staff share 6 information with her, do they not? 7 A No, not to my knowledge, no. 8 Q So you have no idea why she's 9 sitting in your suite? 10 A No. As I said, she works for the 11 First Lady. Beyond that I don't know what 12 she does. 13 Q Does she have access to the 14 computers in the suite? 15 A She has a computer. She has her 16 own computer. 17 Q Let me give you a piece of paper. 18 If you could configure for me how the suite 19 is set up, if you could just draw a rough 20 diagram. 21 A Do you have a pen? 22 Q If you will draw the suite and the 65 1 offices and then put the name of the person 2 in each office. If there are people sitting 3 out in common areas, please record where 4 their desks are located with their names. 5 A I'm not much of an artist. 6 Q This is just for informational 7 purposes. 8 Can I see that, please? 9 Thank you. 10 Is there a sign on the door outside 11 of Suite 197 that lists what the name of your 12 office is? 13 A There may well be. Maybe something 14 that says communications research. I don't 15 recall. There are three separate room 16 numbers, but the only door that is used is 17 the 197. 18 Q Now, Tom, that's your name, right, 19 Janenda? 20 A Correct. 21 Q Can I write that in there? Tom J., 22 Janenda. I will put a little initial next to 66 1 it. 2 Robin, that's Robin Bachman? 3 A Correct. 4 Q How is that spelled again? 5 A B-A-C-H-M-A-N. 6 Q Glen is Glen Weiner? 7 A Correct. 8 Q Brenda Costello, she works for the 9 First Lady? 10 A Correct. 11 Q And A. Walker is Alice Walker? 12 A Ann. 13 Q Ann Walker. 14 Now, is there anybody sitting out 15 in the common area that you've just -- 16 A Yeah, that's common space. That's 17 where -- if there are interns, at that point, 18 that's where interns would be. 19 Q Are there desks out there? 20 A There are -- yeah, there's some 21 desks. 22 Q Can you draw in the desks and who 67 1 sits in those desks? 2 A No. 3 Q If you don't know, just put 4 generically intern. 5 A Sure. 6 Q I'll ask that that be marked as 7 Exhibit 3. 8 MS. GILES: How about Rajiv? Is he 9 sitting there? 10 THE WITNESS: Oh, right. Sorry. 11 Rajiv is actually over here where -- 12 BY MR. KLAYMAN: 13 Q So you've just wrote intern, 14 intern? 15 A And to correct, I apologize, I did 16 not write in where Rajiv sits because he is a 17 new employee and I forgot to put him in. 18 Q Rajiv sits in between Brenda 19 Costello and Ann Walker? 20 A Right. 21 Q And the intern Claire, she's in one 22 of these intern desks? 68 1 A Correct. 2 Q Now, do any of these people in this 3 office, do they have computers? 4 A Yes. 5 Q Who has computers? 6 A I have a computer. Glen has a 7 computer. 8 Q Robin, does she have one? 9 A Robin has a computer. 10 Q Brenda Costello has a computer? 11 A Yes. 12 Q Ann Walker has a computer? 13 A Correct. 14 Q And the interns have computers at 15 their desk? 16 A And Rajiv Mody has a computer and 17 there's -- I would be guessing. I don't 18 know. There's one or two computers for 19 intern use. 20 Q For who? 21 A For intern use. Sorry. 22 Q Now, these computers, are they on 69 1 some kind of network? 2 A I'm sure they are. I don't know 3 much about the system, but, yes. 4 Q Are they wired into a -- 5 A Oh, no. I'm sorry. Are you asking 6 me are they all in that suite connected 7 together? I don't know what you're asking 8 me. Sorry. 9 Q I will ask you that first. Are 10 they connected together? 11 A Again, I'm not an expert on the 12 network at the White House. I don't know. 13 Yes, they are all, to my knowledge, on a 14 network, but, no, they are not -- Ann Walker 15 is not connected to the research computers. 16 Q Let's talk about your computer 17 first. What can you access on your computer 18 other than word processing that you put on 19 your computer? What kind of data bases can 20 you access? 21 A There's all kinds of -- White House 22 computer system. I have my own Word Perfect, 70 1 there's an E-mail system, there's a Netscape 2 or Internet access. There's -- would you 3 clarify your question? I don't understand 4 what you're asking me. 5 Q I'm asking you are there White 6 House data bases or other data bases that you 7 can communicate with to call up information 8 on your computer. 9 A You have to define White House data 10 base. I mean there's, generally, a White 11 House computer system, but I don't know what 12 you mean by a data base. 13 Q Is there a repository of any kind 14 of information that you can access from your 15 computer? 16 A It's just so broad of a question I 17 don't -- 18 Q Mr. Janenda, I know you've been, 19 you know, 12 hours with counsel, but I'm 20 trying to talk simply -- 21 A I'm trying to understand what 22 you're asking me. 71 1 Q As a layperson here, so I couldn't 2 make it simpler than that. 3 A Oh, I think you could. Data base, 4 I mean there's so much -- in today's age 5 there's -- 6 Q I didn't ask you data base. I 7 asked you can you access any kind of 8 information from your computer? 9 A Yes. 10 Q What can you access? 11 A E-mail, Word Perfect, numerous 12 computer programs, Nexis is a computer 13 program and -- to the best of my knowledge, 14 I'm not sure still if I know what you're 15 asking me, but that's what I have on my 16 computer. 17 Q Well, let me ask it in very simple 18 language. Can you turn your computer on? 19 A Uh-huh, yes. 20 Q Can you access information from any 21 source other than E-mail and Nexis? 22 A I'm not trying to split hairs with 72 1 you. I just don't want to -- I'm sure that 2 what I have -- there's All In One, which is 3 a -- which is the old E-mail system that has 4 like the wires on it. I have access to the 5 wires. 6 Q What are wires? 7 A Like the Associated Press wires, 8 U.S. News wire. Various -- whatever 9 applications Microsoft or whatever, you know, 10 that's what I have access to on my terminal 11 in my computer. 12 Q Are there any information data 13 bases in the White House that you can access 14 that were created by the White House? 15 A I don't -- no, I don't believe so. 16 It's such a broad thing. No, nothing that 17 jumps to my mind. 18 Q Does that mean no or you just 19 cannot remember? 20 A It means I still think that that is 21 a vague definition of is there a data base in 22 the White House -- 73 1 Q Well, the reason you ask vague 2 definitions is because you want to be able to 3 cover things. It's a simple question. 4 Are there any data bases in the 5 White House that you can access from your 6 computer? 7 A Again, you can't define data base. 8 I've already described to you the ones that I 9 know of. I guess that's my answer. Those 10 are the only White House sources of 11 information on line on my computer that I can 12 think of that I have access to. 13 Q Have you ever heard of a data base 14 called WhoDB? 15 A I have heard of it, yes, sir. 16 Q Where did you hear of it? 17 A In press accounts. 18 Q Can you access WhoDB from your 19 computer? 20 A No, sir, not to my knowledge, no. 21 Q Do you know of anyone who can 22 access WhoDB from their computer? 74 1 A I know nothing about WhoDP while 2 I've been an employee of the White House, no. 3 Q Are there any other types of data 4 bases, and I'm using that for identification 5 purposes, in the White House that you can get 6 into from your computer or anyone in your 7 office, in that whole suite? 8 A I don't think there -- I don't 9 think there are. I'm not trying to be 10 evasive. I just -- I can't think of anything 11 but -- computer data base is such a broad 12 definition these days. I'm really not trying 13 to split hairs with you. 14 Q The reason it's broad is because 15 you want to make sure you cover things. 16 A Right, and I'm -- I'm telling you 17 -- 18 Q You are aware that being under oath 19 means telling us everything you know. 20 A I'm absolutely aware of that. 21 Q You are aware that this is just a 22 deposition. 75 1 A I'm absolutely -- 2 Q It doesn't mean that what you say 3 is ultimately going to be ruled admissible 4 evidence, but we're entitled to discover to 5 see what it is that you know so that we can 6 follow the leads. You know that, right? 7 A Yes, sir, and I'm doing me best to 8 answer your question. I know of no other 9 White House data bases that you're -- that I 10 would have access to. 11 Q Are you able to access any data 12 bases at places other than the White House 13 such as the Pentagon or any other government 14 agency? 15 A No, sir, not that I'm aware of. I 16 mean unless you're talking about -- you know, 17 I'm trying to be honest here. Like I can get 18 on the Internet at the White House site and 19 connect to the Department of Labor on their 20 public Web site. I can connect to, you know, 21 the Small Business Administration and their 22 public Web site or something like that. But 76 1 I do not know of any other connections to 2 anything. Sorry. 3 Q Has anyone in your office created 4 any type of data bases? 5 A No, I don't believe so. 6 Q You're not sure? 7 A Mr. Klayman, I don't know -- the 8 term "data base" is such a broad -- I mean a 9 computer -- a Word Perfect document that's in 10 a table format, like you might consider that 11 a data base. I'm aware of no data bases that 12 have been set up in my office. 13 Q Yes, I would consider that a data 14 base. 15 A Okay. You know, is there a Word 16 Perfect table document that's been created in 17 my office? 18 Q Yes. 19 A There may be. I would not want to 20 rule -- I would want to rule that out. 21 Q What's been created? 22 A I'm simply telling you my problem 77 1 with your definition of data base. I'm not 2 aware. I'm sure that there are. 3 Q I take it you've asked somebody at 4 some time why is Brenda Costello in our 5 suite? You obviously have asked somebody why 6 is she here? 7 A No, I have not. I am aware of the 8 fact that she works for the First Lady and -- 9 Q You're head of the office, right? 10 A I'm head of the communications 11 research office, correct. 12 Q And the suite that Ms. Brenda 13 Costello shares with you is the White House 14 communications office, correct, research 15 office? 16 A Because there's a -- there may be a 17 plaque on the outside of it, yeah. There are 18 other people in that office beyond people who 19 work for communications research. 20 MS. GILES: If you're going to be 21 using that document as an exhibit, could we 22 get a copy? 78 1 MR. KLAYMAN: Sure. 2 BY MR. KLAYMAN: 3 Q Are you telling me that you, as 4 head of the office, you have never asked why 5 Brenda Costello is there? 6 A I'm telling you that I am aware of 7 why she is there. She works -- she's been in 8 that office before I was hired at the White 9 House. She works for the First Lady. I've 10 never felt the need to know more than that. 11 Q Is she there to keep track of what 12 you and your staff are doing? 13 A Again, to the extent that I can 14 testify as to what her job is, I know she 15 works for the First Lady and that's about all 16 I know. I have no reason to believe that 17 that would -- that would seem to be -- 18 Q I take it you've never asked 19 anybody, that's your testimony, why she's 20 there, correct? 21 A Correct. I mean I may have -- no, 22 I have -- I'm aware that she works for the 79 1 First Lady, so I wouldn't have asked someone. 2 Q Is there a sign on that suite that 3 says First Lady's office or anything to that 4 effect? 5 A On the suite? 6 Q Outside, you know, where it's 7 listed. 8 A Not to my knowledge. To my -- and 9 I gave you a vague recollection. There may 10 be a communications research sign on the 11 outside. So I don't believe there are any 12 others, no. 13 Q Does she have a separate key to her 14 office? Is her office locked? 15 A I don't know. I don't have any 16 knowledge of. 17 Q Have you ever been given any 18 instructions about security in that office 19 given the fact that the First Lady has 20 someone working there? 21 A Have I ever been given -- 22 Q Any special instructions as to how 80 1 to deal with security by virtue of the fact 2 that you have an employee that works with the 3 First Lady in your suite. 4 A No, sir. 5 Q Have you ever been told not to 6 speak with Ms. Costello by anyone? 7 A No, of course not. 8 Q Have you ever talked to her? 9 A Yes, absolutely. 10 Q You talk to her frequently, 11 correct? 12 A I bump her into the office, 13 certainly. We talk, we exchange 14 pleasantries, how was your vacation, you 15 know, personal conversations. 16 Q And surely you must ask her from 17 time to time what are you working on? 18 A No, I can't recall that doing that. 19 There's no reason that I shouldn't, I'm just 20 saying I don't recall it. 21 Q You don't know what she's doing? 22 A No, that's your characterization. 81 1 My testimony is that I don't know what she 2 does for the First Lady other than she works 3 for the First Lady. 4 Q Did you ever ask her who do you 5 work for? 6 A I don't -- I don't recall having 7 done that. I think I was -- just I was aware 8 of it when I was moving into the suite of 9 offices and I was going to get three offices 10 and there were already two offices in there, 11 Brenda works for the First Lady, Ann Walker, 12 who is remaining in the office, works in 13 communications. 14 Q Now, as your duties and 15 responsibilities of head the communications 16 research office, shouldn't you know what 17 people are doing in your suite? 18 A I'm responsible for the people on 19 my staff, certainly. 20 Q You wouldn't let Larry Klayman come 21 into your suite, would you? 22 A If you were cleared by the White 82 1 House and -- I would assume that you were 2 there to have a meeting with Ann Walker or 3 Brenda Costello. 4 Q Have you ever received notice that 5 Mr. Costello was cleared to be in your 6 office? 7 A No. 8 Q Ann Walker, did you ever ask her 9 what she does and why she's in your office? 10 A No. I am, generally, aware that 11 she works on the communications staff and I 12 have had meetings occasionally, like 13 communication staff meetings in the morning 14 for 15 minutes, I know she's on the 15 communications. But I don't -- I don't think 16 I've discussed with her what her 17 responsibilities are. 18 Q Who answers the phone for 19 Ms. Costello if she's not in the office at 20 the time? 21 A I don't know. 22 Q Who answers your phone if you're 83 1 not in the office at the time? 2 A We have -- my phone? 3 Q Yeah. 4 A It goes to voice mail. I don't 5 have anyone who answers my phone. There's a 6 main research line that an intern or someone 7 else on the staff would answer. 8 Q Does anyone take telephone messages 9 for Ms. Costello? Do you ever see a 10 telephone message book where you record when 11 someone called and put -- 12 A No, sir, I've not seen -- 13 Q Do you use such a book? 14 A No, sir. 15 Q So the bottom line is you don't 16 have a clue as to what Ms. Costello does? 17 A No, and you're mischaracterizing 18 what I said. I am well aware that she works 19 for the First Lady. I do not know anything 20 about the details of her workday or what -- 21 what work she's doing. 22 Q I take it you have seen the First 84 1 Lady in your suite from time to time? 2 A No, I have not. 3 Q Have you ever met Mrs. Clinton? 4 A I'm sure I have on one or two 5 occasions at, you know, large White House 6 events. 7 Q Have you ever talked to her about 8 any of the things you're working on? 9 A No, sir. 10 Q Did you ever talk to the President 11 about things that you're working on? 12 A No, sir. Basically, Merry 13 Christmas is about the extent of my 14 conversation with them. 15 Q Has anyone in your office? 16 A No, not to my knowledge. I think 17 if anyone was in my office were going to be, 18 it would be me and, no, I was not. 19 Q Have you ever been invited to the 20 White House residence? 21 A I believe only on one occasion. 22 Q When was that? 85 1 A It was a 60th birthday party. 2 Q For who? 3 A Ann Lewis. 4 Q You know Ann Lewis pretty well, 5 don't you? 6 A Professionally, sure, I work for 7 her. 8 Q Your time in working for the White 9 House, how long have you worked there in any 10 capacity? 11 A February 1997. Since February of 12 1997, late February I believe. 13 Q Do you know of anyone having been 14 invited to social functions in the residence 15 who doesn't know the person that is subject 16 to that social function? 17 A You'd have to rephrase that. I 18 don't know what you're asking me. 19 Q I mean, you just can't walk into 20 the residence, can you, for any old party, 21 can you as a White House employee, based on 22 your knowledge? 86 1 A Again, I don't know what you're 2 asking me. 3 Q What I'm saying is you were invited 4 to the residence for Ann Lewis' 60th birthday 5 party, to the best of your knowledge, because 6 you knew her pretty well, correct? 7 A Yeah, although there were probably 8 60 people there or something. 9 Q But is it fair to say that just 10 because you work at the White House doesn't 11 mean that you can go to a birthday party for 12 Ann Lewis in the residence? You have to be 13 specially invited, right? 14 A Yeah, that's fair. 15 MR. KLAYMAN: Let's take a 16 five-minute break. And my appointment for 17 lunch was postponed, so we won't have that 18 issue. 19 MS. GILES: Oh, good. 20 VIDEO TECHNICIAN: We're going off 21 record at 10:35 Eastern Standard Time. 22 (Janenda Deposition Exhibit 87 1 No. 3 was marked for 2 identification.) 3 (Recess) 4 VIDEO TECHNICIAN: We're back on 5 video record at 10:47 Eastern Standard Time. 6 THE WITNESS: Mr. Klayman, if I 7 might clarify something. 8 MR. KLAYMAN: Yes. 9 THE WITNESS: Regarding Brenda 10 Costello. I -- she is -- to my knowledge, 11 the only thing beyond the fact that she works 12 for the First Lady, she, to my knowledge, 13 prepares her briefing book, her daily like 14 trip briefing book as to who she's going to 15 be -- you know, whatever the briefing book 16 consist of. My general knowledge would be 17 who is greeting you at the airport, whose 18 home you're going to, that kind of 19 information, and I -- if I didn't understand 20 the question. 21 BY MR. KLAYMAN: 22 Q Well, I think you understood the 88 1 question, but did you talk to your counsel 2 during the intermission here before you 3 decided that you wanted to tell me that? 4 A I personally made the decision 5 before I walked out the door that I was going 6 to say this. 7 Q During this break did you talk to 8 your counsel? 9 A Before I talked to my counsel I -- 10 I don't know what I'm trying to get to -- I 11 informed them that I wanted to clarify 12 something for the record. 13 Q When did this thought come to you? 14 A Well, I couldn't understand why 15 there was such a great interest in some of 16 the questions, so I got -- I was thinking 17 about it and that's -- I wanted to clarify 18 the record. 19 Q Let me clarify something, too. 20 Are you giving me responses based 21 upon what you think my motivation is in 22 asking the questions? 89 1 A No, sir. 2 MS. GILES: There's no need to 3 badger the witness. He's trying to be 4 complete. 5 MR. KLAYMAN: I'm not badgering. 6 That's what he just said. 7 MS. GILES: He's trying to be 8 complete. 9 MR. KLAYMAN: That's what he just 10 said. 11 THE WITNESS: It's not what I said. 12 MR. KLAYMAN: That he couldn't 13 figure out my motivation, so when he finally 14 did, that's when he came up with this 15 response. 16 THE WITNESS: No. What I'm saying 17 is I didn't -- I'm trying to answer as fully 18 as I can and the fact that my answer wasn't 19 good enough led me to rethink and try to pick 20 my brain better. 21 BY MR. KLAYMAN: 22 Q But you did talk to counsel during 90 1 the intermission? 2 A I told them -- I informed them -- 3 MS. GILES: Don't tell him what you 4 told us. 5 THE WITNESS: All right. 6 MS. GILES: But you can clarify 7 whether you said -- 8 BY MR. KLAYMAN: 9 Q How did you learn that Ms. Brenda 10 Costello handled the briefing book for Mrs. 11 Clinton? 12 A Part of my -- that's what my -- the 13 extent of my knowledge, she works for the 14 First Lady. She does the briefing book. 15 Q Who told you that? 16 A I just couldn't tell you. It's 17 just something that is known. I mean she did 18 the briefing book. 19 Q Have you seen her doing the 20 briefing book, observed it? 21 A I've seen her run out of the office 22 at 8:00 o'clock delivering something that was 91 1 the briefing book. That's the extent of it. 2 Q But you didn't know that was the 3 briefing book? 4 A I don't know. I'm not clear on 5 what you're asking me. 6 Q Well, how did you know what she's 7 carrying out of the office at 8:00 p.m. is a 8 briefing book? 9 A Because -- 10 Q How do you come to that knowledge? 11 A Just generally known she works for 12 the First Lady and she prepares the briefing 13 book. I mean there are -- 14 Q But you don't know specifically 15 that what she leaves with at 8:00 p.m. is a 16 briefing book, correct? 17 A Did I read it? Is that what you're 18 asking me? 19 Q No, whether you know. I can't make 20 questions more simple than this. 21 A I did not read what -- what it is 22 that was described as the briefing brook. We 92 1 have to -- you know, I have to get it to the 2 First Lady by 8:00 o'clock. 3 Q I'm asking whether you knew it was 4 the briefing book. 5 A Beyond taking her at her word or 6 something, no. 7 Q So she's told you that that's what 8 she was carrying, was the briefing book? 9 A I'm sure that's probably happened 10 on occasion, yes. 11 Q So you have communicated with her 12 about what she does, correct? 13 A In passing her in the hallway or 14 her coming out of her office, you know, 15 hello. How are you? I'm great. I've got to 16 get this over there before X time or 17 something, generally, like that. That's the 18 extent of it. 19 Q And she said I've got to get this 20 briefing book to the First Lady? 21 A Right. I'm not -- and to be clear, 22 I'm sure that that has happened. I couldn't 93 1 tell you a specific occasion, but that is the 2 general nature of, you know. Any 3 conversation I've had with her about it. 4 Q Did you ever go to lunch with her? 5 A No. 6 Q Did you ever have coffee with her? 7 A No. 8 Q Did you ever go into her office and 9 talk to her for a bit? 10 A I'm sure that's happened, yes. 11 Q She has a chair in her office other 12 than the one she sits in? 13 A I believe she does, yeah. 14 Q And you've sat down and rapped with 15 her for a little bit from time to time? 16 A I'm sure I said hello, how are you, 17 that kind of thing. 18 Q And surely you must have said what 19 kinds of things do you do? 20 A No. This is there I mean I 21 think -- no, I have not had that conversation 22 with her. 94 1 Q Does she have a filing cabinet in 2 the office of hers? Surely you must have 3 observed one. 4 A I -- honestly I think she has a 5 bookcase. I don't know whether she has a 6 file cabinet. 7 Q Does she keep storage of documents 8 or other types of things elsewhere in the 9 suite? 10 A She has -- I believe she has a 11 bookcase on the wall facing outside of her 12 office, but the wall of her office there's a 13 second, best of my recollection, a second 14 bookcase. 15 Q A bookcase or a file cabinet? 16 A Bookcase. 17 Q I'm talking about does she keep 18 documents in that bookcase? 19 A My -- I believe she has binders is 20 my recollection. 21 Q She keeps copies of correspondence 22 in the binders? 95 1 A I don't know what she keeps in the 2 binders. They're binders. 3 Q Have you ever opened up any of 4 those binders? 5 A No, sir, I don't believe so. 6 Q Has anyone else? 7 A Has anyone else? 8 Q That you know of? 9 A I -- I couldn't say. That I know 10 of, no. 11 Q Are there procedures in your office 12 for storing and documents, computer disks and 13 other things, for retaining them, storing 14 them? 15 A The communications research office? 16 Q Yes. 17 A You'd have to clarify a little bit. 18 Yes, I believe there are. 19 Q What are they? What procedures do 20 you have? 21 A Within our office -- 22 Q Yes. 96 1 A -- we have, you know, sort of 2 establishing where certain things are kept I 3 guess I would say. 4 Q Are there written instructions on 5 where to keep things? 6 A Within my office, no, I don't 7 believe so, no. 8 Q You're the one that conveys to the 9 staff where to keep things? 10 A Or among -- I mean it's a small 11 staff, so it wouldn't just be like myself 12 dictating them. It would be someone else 13 saying let's keep CQs here. 14 Q Tell me what is stored in your 15 office currently. 16 A Catalog? You have to be more 17 specific. 18 Q I can't be more specific than that. 19 A What is stored in my office. 20 Q What is stored in your office? 21 A In general terms, I have a -- in my 22 office -- 97 1 Q Not just your office, but in the 2 suite itself. 3 A I was trying to -- you asked me 4 about my office. 5 Q That's fine. Take it in the order 6 you want. 7 A There's a file cabinet in my office 8 which contains information that comes in from 9 like newsletters and public policy papers 10 from specific organizations. 11 Q What organizations? 12 A A host of organizations. 13 Q Name some. 14 A The Heritage Foundation, the 15 Brookings Institute, the -- no -- Domestic 16 Policy Council or DPC from up on Capitol 17 Hill. I mean just a variety of newsletters 18 and policy papers that come to the office we 19 keep them by organization. 20 Q Do you routinely store materials 21 printed off the Internet in that file 22 cabinet? 98 1 A No. To the best of my 2 recollection, that's -- I'm not saying it 3 isn't possible that there is something 4 printed from the particular groups that's in 5 there, but, as a general practice, that's 6 information that comes in the mail. 7 Q What else information is in the 8 file cabinet? 9 A That's about it. I think that's 10 all that's in there. 11 Q Now, tell me what else is kept 12 either in your office or throughout the 13 suite, what is kept and maintained. 14 A I have a small bookcase next to my 15 desk that has various books that either I've 16 loaned from the OEOB library for speeches 17 that I'm trying to help with research on, 18 also some personal books that I own that are 19 sort of historical facts and figures type 20 books. I have a credenza behind the unit 21 that has got one -- one small file drawer in 22 it that has, generally, like the things I'm 99 1 working on, those types of files. And that's 2 pretty much, I believe, all that's in my 3 office. 4 Q What things are you working on 5 right now? 6 A What things am I working on right 7 now. 8 Q That you would keep in that 9 credenza. 10 A I have a number of files related to 11 a nomination that I'm working on. 12 Q Nomination of who? 13 A James Hormel, Ambassadorial 14 nominee. 15 Q To Luxenberg? 16 A Correct. 17 Q What else? 18 A I believe there's a couple of files 19 on the vacancies act, there are a couple of 20 files on -- what else? I -- I can't recall 21 what else. I'm sure there are other files in 22 there, but off the top of my head I can't 100 1 recall what they are. 2 Q Do you have files on Bob Barr? 3 A No, sir, no where in the office. 4 Q Do you have files on Richard Mellon 5 Scaife? 6 A No, sir, no where in the office. 7 Q Do you have files on the American 8 Spectator? 9 A I don't believe there are files. 10 I'm sure -- we get the magazine, so I'm sure 11 there are copies of the magazine, but there's 12 no files. I personally looked through the 13 files and there are no files in our office. 14 Q The suite you're talking about? 15 A In the -- the research -- again, 16 the suite is divided. In my -- any of the 17 people in my staff or our file cabinets there 18 are no such files. 19 Q Files on David Hale? 20 A No, sir, not anywhere in the 21 office. 22 Q Files on Newt Gingrich?
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