51


       1    want to ask the questions.  You're going far

       2    beyond any legitimate assertion of

       3    attorney/client privilege here.

       4              BY MR. KLAYMAN:

       5         Q    I'm going to show you what has been

       6    provided to me by your counsel this morning

       7    called Response to Plaintiffs' Notice of

       8    Deposition Duces Tecum to Mr. Tom Janenda,

       9    and we'll just take a two-minute break so we

      10    can make copies of that.

      11              Going off record at 9:57 Eastern

      12    Standard Time.

      13                   (Recess)

      14              VIDEO TECHNICIAN:  We're back on

      15    video record at 10:02 a.m.

      16              MR. KLAYMAN:  Eastern Standard

      17    Time.

      18              VIDEO TECHNICIAN:  Eastern Standard

      19    Time.

      20              MR. KLAYMAN:  I showy you what I'll

      21    ask the court reporter to mark as Exhibit 2.

      22                   (Janenda Deposition Exhibit








                                                              52


       1                   No. 2 was marked for

       2                   identification.)

       3              BY MR. KLAYMAN:

       4         Q    Showing you Exhibit 2, Mr. Janenda,

       5    take an opportunity to look at this and tell

       6    me if you've ever seen it before, Exhibit 2,

       7    Response to Plaintiffs' Notice of Deposition

       8    Duces Tecum to Mr. Tom Janenda?

       9         A    Yes, sir.

      10         Q    When did you see it?

      11         A    Over the course of yesterday and

      12    this morning.

      13         Q    Did you review the contents of this

      14    document?

      15         A    Yes, sir.

      16         Q    Who did you review it with?

      17              MS. GILES:  You can answer.

      18              THE WITNESS:  With my counsel.

      19              BY MR. KLAYMAN:

      20         Q    Did you approve what's written in

      21    this document?

      22         A    Yes, sir.








                                                              53


       1         Q    Let go back to Exhibit 1.  You see

       2    where after the first page, first it notes

       3    your deposition and then it says, "Exhibit A,

       4    Instructions"?

       5         A    Yes, sir.

       6         Q    Did you yourself review the

       7    instructions and then the following

       8    definitions as to what constitutes a document

       9    in terms of being able to produce information

      10    here today?

      11         A    Yes, sir.

      12         Q    Who did you review that with?

      13         A    Myself and I believe at some point

      14    counsel.

      15         Q    What is your understanding of what

      16    constitutes a document in terms of producing

      17    information to Judicial Watch?

      18         A    Whatever definition I've read in

      19    here.

      20         Q    Well, I want you to tell me now

      21    what your understanding is.  Please don't

      22    look at it.  I just want to know what you








                                                              54


       1    understand right now.

       2         A    I'm not a lawyer.  I read it, you

       3    know.  I paid attention to it.  You know, I

       4    don't know, I mean, anything about documents,

       5    as defined in your material that I read

       6    carefully.

       7         Q    Tell me what your understanding is

       8    that you had to produce?

       9         A    All of the material that is

      10    requested in this document.

      11         Q    How is the document defined,

      12    roughly speaking?

      13         A    Anything I produced in my computer,

      14    anything that's in my files, anything that's

      15    in my E-mail.  I mean I read this carefully

      16    and that's my recollection of what it is.

      17         Q    Did you go through each document

      18    request one by one?

      19         A    Yes, certainly I reviewed them,

      20    yes.

      21         Q    And did you search for document

      22    requests one by one?  For each request did








                                                              55


       1    you search for documents?

       2         A    I mean I believe I -- yeah, I mean

       3    I did not -- on the advice of --

       4              MS. GILES:  Don't talk about the

       5    advice your counsel gave you, but other than

       6    anything counsel said to you --

       7              THE WITNESS:  I went through -- I

       8    spent a great amount of time going through

       9    looking for responsive documents.

      10              BY MR. KLAYMAN:

      11         Q    Did anyone help you to look for

      12    responsive documents?

      13         A    No, I searched myself.  And to be

      14    clear, I also, for sake of time purposes in

      15    getting through all the material, I had -- I

      16    asked on people on my staff to also search

      17    their own files and directories so that I

      18    could answer for my office.

      19         Q    Who did you ask to search your

      20    files and directories.

      21         A    Everyone in my office, my staff.

      22         Q    Who was that?








                                                              56


       1         A    Glen Weiner, Robin Bachman.

       2         Q    How is that spelled?

       3         A    B-A-C-H-M-A-N.

       4         Q    And what's her position?

       5         A    Researcher.

       6         Q    Who else?

       7         A    One other person who just started

       8    this week, Rajiv Mody.

       9         Q    M-O?

      10         A    D-Y.

      11         Q    D-Y.  And what's his position?

      12         A    Junior research.

      13         Q    Are you the head of office?

      14         A    Correct, of the communications

      15    research office, yes.

      16         Q    That's the formal name,

      17    communications research office?

      18         A    Correct.

      19         Q    Is there anyone else that works in

      20    that office?

      21         A    No, sir, other than interns.

      22         Q    What interns have worked in that








                                                              57


       1    office over the last year?

       2         A    I couldn't begin to tell you.

       3         Q    Do you remember any of them?

       4         A    I don't.  Again, beyond some first

       5    names, I couldn't tell you.

       6         Q    Let's hear the first names.

       7         A    Claire is the only one I remember.

       8         Q    Do you know if she's still there?

       9         A    I believe she is, yeah.

      10         Q    Do you remember her last name?

      11         A    I do not.

      12         Q    How long have you been head of that

      13    office?

      14         A    Since, I would say, mid summer of

      15    last year, 1997.

      16         Q    Who was the head of the office

      17    before that?

      18         A    Ann Walker.

      19         Q    Is there an E at the end of Ann?

      20         A    I don't believe so.

      21         Q    Where is she located today,

      22    professionally speaking?








                                                              58


       1         A    She works at the White house.

       2         Q    What's her position?

       3         A    I couldn't speak for her.  I

       4    believe she's in communications.  That's all

       5    I know.

       6         Q    Who does she work for in

       7    communications?

       8         A    Communications director.

       9         Q    Who is?

      10         A    Ann Lewis.

      11         Q    What are her duties and

      12    responsibilities for Ann Lewis?

      13         A    For Ann Lewis?

      14         Q    For Ann Lewis.

      15         A    I can't answer for her.

      16         Q    Based on your knowledge.

      17         A    To my knowledge, she's the

      18    communications director for the President --

      19    for the office.  She runs the office of

      20    communications.

      21         Q    Ann Lewis?

      22         A    Correct.








                                                              59


       1         Q    But what does Ann Walker do for Ann

       2    Lewis?  What are her duties and

       3    responsibilities?

       4         A    I don't know.  I don't work with

       5    her.  I don't know what her responsibilities

       6    are.

       7         Q    Now, tell me who had what division

       8    of responsibility between you, Robin Bachman

       9    and Rajiv Mody to look for documents

      10    responsive to Judicial Watch's Notice of

      11    Deposition Duces Tecum, which is Exhibit 1.

      12    How did you divide up the responsibility to

      13    search for those documents?

      14         A    I did the bulk of it myself.  I

      15    personally reviewed all of the hard files and

      16    all of my own personal electronic files and

      17    --

      18         Q    What hard files did you review?

      19    Just your computer?

      20         A    Hard files are not, to my

      21    definition computer files, so, no, I wouldn't

      22    say.








                                                              60


       1         Q    What I'm trying to say, did you

       2    have a meeting with these people where you

       3    divided up who was going to do what aspect of

       4    the document search?

       5         A    No, sir.

       6         Q    How was it conveyed as to who was

       7    to do what?

       8         A    As I said, I anything that was

       9    office wide files or hard files or my own

      10    personal files I reviewed myself and -- and

      11    then I asked Robin Bachman and Rajiv to

      12    search their own electronic files and hard

      13    files for information without explaining.

      14         Q    Did you finish?

      15         A    That was it.

      16         Q    How do you define a hard file?

      17    What is a hard file?

      18         A    My definition of a hard file is a

      19    piece of paper or something that exists that

      20    you can pick up.

      21         Q    Where are those files kept in the

      22    office?








                                                              61


       1         A    Throughout the office.

       2         Q    Are there specific filing cabinets?

       3         A    Yes.

       4         Q    Whose filing cabinets are they kept

       5    in?

       6         A    I don't understand the question.

       7         Q    Are the filing cabinets assigned to

       8    a particular person in the office or are they

       9    for general use?

      10         A    The majority of them are general

      11    use.

      12         Q    And where is your office located?

      13    What's the number of the room or rooms where

      14    it's located?

      15         A    Suite 197 of the Old Executive

      16    Office Building.

      17         Q    Is there more than one office in

      18    that suite?

      19         A    Yes, sir.

      20         Q    Who has offices in that suite?

      21         A    Myself, Robin Bachman, Glen Weiner,

      22    Ann Walker and Brenda Costello.








                                                              62


       1         Q    So Ann Walker, even though she

       2    works for Ann Lewis, has an office in your

       3    suite?

       4         A    Correct.  In Suite 197, correct.

       5         Q    And who is the last person you just

       6    mentioned?  Ms. Costello?

       7         A    Yes.

       8         Q    What is her position?

       9         A    I couldn't really answer for her,

      10    as to what her position is.  I don't know.

      11         Q    Well, based on your understanding,

      12    what does she do?

      13         A    I don't know what she does.  I

      14    don't.  I mean to my knowledge, she works for

      15    the First Lady.

      16         Q    In what capacity?

      17         A    Again, I -- you're asking me to

      18    speculate on what someone else's job is?

      19              MS. GILES:  What does she --

      20              BY MR. KLAYMAN:

      21         Q    No, I'm not asking you to speculate

      22    and, besides, you can speculate.  This is








                                                              63


       1    discovery.  It doesn't mean it's coming into

       2    evidence.

       3              I'm asking you based upon what your

       4    understanding is why is she there in that

       5    suite?

       6         A    She works for the First Lady.  I

       7    can't say. I don't know.

       8         Q    And you have interaction with her

       9    from time to time, do you not?

      10         A    I say hello.  I know her.  I pass

      11    her in the office and we exchange

      12    pleasantries, yes.

      13         Q    What's the name of your suite?

      14         A    197.

      15         Q    And what's the formal title?

      16         A    I don't know that there is one.

      17    There may be.  I don't know if there's a

      18    plaque on the door or outside the door, but

      19    it's, basically --

      20         Q    Have you ever asked why is

      21    Ms. Costello here?

      22         A    No.








                                                              64


       1         Q    Now, you sometimes share with

       2    Ms. Costello don't you?

       3         A    I can't remember an occasion where

       4    I did, no.

       5         Q    Others on your staff share

       6    information with her, do they not?

       7         A    No, not to my knowledge, no.

       8         Q    So you have no idea why she's

       9    sitting in your suite?

      10         A    No.  As I said, she works for the

      11    First Lady.  Beyond that I don't know what

      12    she does.

      13         Q    Does she have access to the

      14    computers in the suite?

      15         A    She has a computer.  She has her

      16    own computer.

      17         Q    Let me give you a piece of paper.

      18    If you could configure for me how the suite

      19    is set up, if you could just draw a rough

      20    diagram.

      21         A    Do you have a pen?

      22         Q    If you will draw the suite and the








                                                              65


       1    offices and then put the name of the person

       2    in each office.  If there are people sitting

       3    out in common areas, please record where

       4    their desks are located with their names.

       5         A    I'm not much of an artist.

       6         Q    This is just for informational

       7    purposes.

       8              Can I see that, please?

       9              Thank you.

      10              Is there a sign on the door outside

      11    of Suite 197 that lists what the name of your

      12    office is?

      13         A    There may well be.  Maybe something

      14    that says communications research.  I don't

      15    recall.  There are three separate room

      16    numbers, but the only door that is used is

      17    the 197.

      18         Q    Now, Tom, that's your name, right,

      19    Janenda?

      20         A    Correct.

      21         Q    Can I write that in there?  Tom J.,

      22    Janenda.  I will put a little initial next to








                                                              66


       1    it.

       2              Robin, that's Robin Bachman?

       3         A    Correct.

       4         Q    How is that spelled again?

       5         A    B-A-C-H-M-A-N.

       6         Q    Glen is Glen Weiner?

       7         A    Correct.

       8         Q    Brenda Costello, she works for the

       9    First Lady?

      10         A    Correct.

      11         Q    And A. Walker is Alice Walker?

      12         A    Ann.

      13         Q    Ann Walker.

      14              Now, is there anybody sitting out

      15    in the common area that you've just --

      16         A    Yeah, that's common space.  That's

      17    where -- if there are interns, at that point,

      18    that's where interns would be.

      19         Q    Are there desks out there?

      20         A    There are -- yeah, there's some

      21    desks.

      22         Q    Can you draw in the desks and who








                                                              67


       1    sits in those desks?

       2         A    No.

       3         Q    If you don't know, just put

       4    generically intern.

       5         A    Sure.

       6         Q    I'll ask that that be marked as

       7    Exhibit 3.

       8              MS. GILES:  How about Rajiv?  Is he

       9    sitting there?

      10              THE WITNESS:  Oh, right.  Sorry.

      11    Rajiv is actually over here where --

      12              BY MR. KLAYMAN:

      13         Q    So you've just wrote intern,

      14    intern?

      15         A    And to correct, I apologize, I did

      16    not write in where Rajiv sits because he is a

      17    new employee and I forgot to put him in.

      18         Q    Rajiv sits in between Brenda

      19    Costello and Ann Walker?

      20         A    Right.

      21         Q    And the intern Claire, she's in one

      22    of these intern desks?








                                                              68


       1         A    Correct.

       2         Q    Now, do any of these people in this

       3    office, do they have computers?

       4         A    Yes.

       5         Q    Who has computers?

       6         A    I have a computer.  Glen has a

       7    computer.

       8         Q    Robin, does she have one?

       9         A    Robin has a computer.

      10         Q    Brenda Costello has a computer?

      11         A    Yes.

      12         Q    Ann Walker has a computer?

      13         A    Correct.

      14         Q    And the interns have computers at

      15    their desk?

      16         A    And Rajiv Mody has a computer and

      17    there's -- I would be guessing.  I don't

      18    know.  There's one or two computers for

      19    intern use.

      20         Q    For who?

      21         A    For intern use.  Sorry.

      22         Q    Now, these computers, are they on








                                                              69


       1    some kind of network?

       2         A    I'm sure they are.  I don't know

       3    much about the system, but, yes.

       4         Q    Are they wired into a --

       5         A    Oh, no.  I'm sorry.  Are you asking

       6    me are they all in that suite connected

       7    together?  I don't know what you're asking

       8    me.  Sorry.

       9         Q    I will ask you that first.  Are

      10    they connected together?

      11         A    Again, I'm not an expert on the

      12    network at the White House.  I don't know.

      13    Yes, they are all, to my knowledge, on a

      14    network, but, no, they are not -- Ann Walker

      15    is not connected to the research computers.

      16         Q    Let's talk about your computer

      17    first.  What can you access on your computer

      18    other than word processing that you put on

      19    your computer?  What kind of data bases can

      20    you access?

      21         A    There's all kinds of -- White House

      22    computer system.  I have my own Word Perfect,








                                                              70


       1    there's an E-mail system, there's a Netscape

       2    or Internet access.  There's -- would you

       3    clarify your question?  I don't understand

       4    what you're asking me.

       5         Q    I'm asking you are there White

       6    House data bases or other data bases that you

       7    can communicate with to call up information

       8    on your computer.

       9         A    You have to define White House data

      10    base.  I mean there's, generally, a White

      11    House computer system, but I don't know what

      12    you mean by a data base.

      13         Q    Is there a repository of any kind

      14    of information that you can access from your

      15    computer?

      16         A    It's just so broad of a question I

      17    don't --

      18         Q    Mr. Janenda, I know you've been,

      19    you know, 12 hours with counsel, but I'm

      20    trying to talk simply --

      21         A    I'm trying to understand what

      22    you're asking me.








                                                              71


       1         Q    As a layperson here, so I couldn't

       2    make it simpler than that.

       3         A    Oh, I think you could.  Data base,

       4    I mean there's so much -- in today's age

       5    there's --

       6         Q    I didn't ask you data base.  I

       7    asked you can you access any kind of

       8    information from your computer?

       9         A    Yes.

      10         Q    What can you access?

      11         A    E-mail, Word Perfect, numerous

      12    computer programs, Nexis is a computer

      13    program and -- to the best of my knowledge,

      14    I'm not sure still if I know what you're

      15    asking me, but that's what I have on my

      16    computer.

      17         Q    Well, let me ask it in very simple

      18    language.  Can you turn your computer on?

      19         A    Uh-huh, yes.

      20         Q    Can you access information from any

      21    source other than E-mail and Nexis?

      22         A    I'm not trying to split hairs with








                                                              72


       1    you.  I just don't want to -- I'm sure that

       2    what I have -- there's All In One, which is

       3    a -- which is the old E-mail system that has

       4    like the wires on it.  I have access to the

       5    wires.

       6         Q    What are wires?

       7         A    Like the Associated Press wires,

       8    U.S. News wire.  Various -- whatever

       9    applications Microsoft or whatever, you know,

      10    that's what I have access to on my terminal

      11    in my computer.

      12         Q    Are there any information data

      13    bases in the White House that you can access

      14    that were created by the White House?

      15         A    I don't -- no, I don't believe so.

      16    It's such a broad thing.  No, nothing that

      17    jumps to my mind.

      18         Q    Does that mean no or you just

      19    cannot remember?

      20         A    It means I still think that that is

      21    a vague definition of is there a data base in

      22    the White House --








                                                              73


       1         Q    Well, the reason you ask vague

       2    definitions is because you want to be able to

       3    cover things.  It's a simple question.

       4              Are there any data bases in the

       5    White House that you can access from your

       6    computer?

       7         A    Again, you can't define data base.

       8    I've already described to you the ones that I

       9    know of.  I guess that's my answer.  Those

      10    are the only White House sources of

      11    information on line on my computer that I can

      12    think of that I have access to.

      13         Q    Have you ever heard of a data base

      14    called WhoDB?

      15         A    I have heard of it, yes, sir.

      16         Q    Where did you hear of it?

      17         A    In press accounts.

      18         Q    Can you access WhoDB from your

      19    computer?

      20         A    No, sir, not to my knowledge, no.

      21         Q    Do you know of anyone who can

      22    access WhoDB from their computer?








                                                              74


       1         A    I know nothing about WhoDP while

       2    I've been an employee of the White House, no.

       3         Q    Are there any other types of data

       4    bases, and I'm using that for identification

       5    purposes, in the White House that you can get

       6    into from your computer or anyone in your

       7    office, in that whole suite?

       8         A    I don't think there -- I don't

       9    think there are.  I'm not trying to be

      10    evasive.  I just -- I can't think of anything

      11    but -- computer data base is such a broad

      12    definition these days.  I'm really not trying

      13    to split hairs with you.

      14         Q    The reason it's broad is because

      15    you want to make sure you cover things.

      16         A    Right, and I'm -- I'm telling you

      17    --

      18         Q    You are aware that being under oath

      19    means telling us everything you know.

      20         A    I'm absolutely aware of that.

      21         Q    You are aware that this is just a

      22    deposition.








                                                              75


       1         A    I'm absolutely --

       2         Q    It doesn't mean that what you say

       3    is ultimately going to be ruled admissible

       4    evidence, but we're entitled to discover to

       5    see what it is that you know so that we can

       6    follow the leads.  You know that, right?

       7         A    Yes, sir, and I'm doing me best to

       8    answer your question.  I know of no other

       9    White House data bases that you're -- that I

      10    would have access to.

      11         Q    Are you able to access any data

      12    bases at places other than the White House

      13    such as the Pentagon or any other government

      14    agency?

      15         A    No, sir, not that I'm aware of.  I

      16    mean unless you're talking about -- you know,

      17    I'm trying to be honest here.  Like I can get

      18    on the Internet at the White House site and

      19    connect to the Department of Labor on their

      20    public Web site.  I can connect to, you know,

      21    the Small Business Administration and their

      22    public Web site or something like that.  But








                                                              76


       1    I do not know of any other connections to

       2    anything.  Sorry.

       3         Q    Has anyone in your office created

       4    any type of data bases?

       5         A    No, I don't believe so.

       6         Q    You're not sure?

       7         A    Mr. Klayman, I don't know -- the

       8    term "data base" is such a broad -- I mean a

       9    computer -- a Word Perfect document that's in

      10    a table format, like you might consider that

      11    a data base.  I'm aware of no data bases that

      12    have been set up in my office.

      13         Q    Yes, I would consider that a data

      14    base.

      15         A    Okay.  You know, is there a Word

      16    Perfect table document that's been created in

      17    my office?

      18         Q    Yes.

      19         A    There may be.  I would not want to

      20    rule -- I would want to rule that out.

      21         Q    What's been created?

      22         A    I'm simply telling you my problem








                                                              77


       1    with your definition of data base.  I'm not

       2    aware.  I'm sure that there are.

       3         Q    I take it you've asked somebody at

       4    some time why is Brenda Costello in our

       5    suite?  You obviously have asked somebody why

       6    is she here?

       7         A    No, I have not.  I am aware of the

       8    fact that she works for the First Lady and --

       9         Q    You're head of the office, right?

      10         A    I'm head of the communications

      11    research office, correct.

      12         Q    And the suite that Ms. Brenda

      13    Costello shares with you is the White House

      14    communications office, correct, research

      15    office?

      16         A    Because there's a -- there may be a

      17    plaque on the outside of it, yeah.  There are

      18    other people in that office beyond people who

      19    work for communications research.

      20              MS. GILES:  If you're going to be

      21    using that document as an exhibit, could we

      22    get a copy?








                                                              78


       1              MR. KLAYMAN:  Sure.

       2              BY MR. KLAYMAN:

       3         Q    Are you telling me that you, as

       4    head of the office, you have never asked why

       5    Brenda Costello is there?

       6         A    I'm telling you that I am aware of

       7    why she is there.  She works -- she's been in

       8    that office before I was hired at the White

       9    House.  She works for the First Lady.  I've

      10    never felt the need to know more than that.

      11         Q    Is she there to keep track of what

      12    you and your staff are doing?

      13         A    Again, to the extent that I can

      14    testify as to what her job is, I know she

      15    works for the First Lady and that's about all

      16    I know.  I have no reason to believe that

      17    that would -- that would seem to be --

      18         Q    I take it you've never asked

      19    anybody, that's your testimony, why she's

      20    there, correct?

      21         A    Correct.  I mean I may have -- no,

      22    I have -- I'm aware that she works for the








                                                              79


       1    First Lady, so I wouldn't have asked someone.

       2         Q    Is there a sign on that suite that

       3    says First Lady's office or anything to that

       4    effect?

       5         A    On the suite?

       6         Q    Outside, you know, where it's

       7    listed.

       8         A    Not to my knowledge.  To my -- and

       9    I gave you a vague recollection.  There may

      10    be a communications research sign on the

      11    outside.  So I don't believe there are any

      12    others, no.

      13         Q    Does she have a separate key to her

      14    office? Is her office locked?

      15         A    I don't know.  I don't have any

      16    knowledge of.

      17         Q    Have you ever been given any

      18    instructions about security in that office

      19    given the fact that the First Lady has

      20    someone working there?

      21         A    Have I ever been given --

      22         Q    Any special instructions as to how








                                                              80


       1    to deal with security by virtue of the fact

       2    that you have an employee that works with the

       3    First Lady in your suite.

       4         A    No, sir.

       5         Q    Have you ever been told not to

       6    speak with Ms. Costello by anyone?

       7         A    No, of course not.

       8         Q    Have you ever talked to her?

       9         A    Yes, absolutely.

      10         Q    You talk to her frequently,

      11    correct?

      12         A    I bump her into the office,

      13    certainly.  We talk, we exchange

      14    pleasantries, how was your vacation, you

      15    know, personal conversations.

      16         Q    And surely you must ask her from

      17    time to time what are you working on?

      18         A    No, I can't recall that doing that.

      19    There's no reason that I shouldn't, I'm just

      20    saying I don't recall it.

      21         Q    You don't know what she's doing?

      22         A    No, that's your characterization.








                                                              81


       1    My testimony is that I don't know what she

       2    does for the First Lady other than she works

       3    for the First Lady.

       4         Q    Did you ever ask her who do you

       5    work for?

       6         A    I don't -- I don't recall having

       7    done that.  I think I was -- just I was aware

       8    of it when I was moving into the suite of

       9    offices and I was going to get three offices

      10    and there were already two offices in there,

      11    Brenda works for the First Lady, Ann Walker,

      12    who is remaining in the office, works in

      13    communications.

      14         Q    Now, as your duties and

      15    responsibilities of head the communications

      16    research office, shouldn't you know what

      17    people are doing in your suite?

      18         A    I'm responsible for the people on

      19    my staff, certainly.

      20         Q    You wouldn't let Larry Klayman come

      21    into your suite, would you?

      22         A    If you were cleared by the White








                                                              82


       1    House and -- I would assume that you were

       2    there to have a meeting with Ann Walker or

       3    Brenda Costello.

       4         Q    Have you ever received notice that

       5    Mr. Costello was cleared to be in your

       6    office?

       7         A    No.

       8         Q    Ann Walker, did you ever ask her

       9    what she does and why she's in your office?

      10         A    No.  I am, generally, aware that

      11    she works on the communications staff and I

      12    have had meetings occasionally, like

      13    communication staff meetings in the morning

      14    for 15 minutes, I know she's on the

      15    communications.  But I don't -- I don't think

      16    I've discussed with her what her

      17    responsibilities are.

      18         Q    Who answers the phone for

      19    Ms. Costello if she's not in the office at

      20    the time?

      21         A    I don't know.

      22         Q    Who answers your phone if you're








                                                              83


       1    not in the office at the time?

       2         A    We have -- my phone?

       3         Q    Yeah.

       4         A    It goes to voice mail.  I don't

       5    have anyone who answers my phone.  There's a

       6    main research line that an intern or someone

       7    else on the staff would answer.

       8         Q    Does anyone take telephone messages

       9    for Ms. Costello?  Do you ever see a

      10    telephone message book where you record when

      11    someone called and put --

      12         A    No, sir, I've not seen --

      13         Q    Do you use such a book?

      14         A    No, sir.

      15         Q    So the bottom line is you don't

      16    have a clue as to what Ms. Costello does?

      17         A    No, and you're mischaracterizing

      18    what I said.  I am well aware that she works

      19    for the First Lady.  I do not know anything

      20    about the details of her workday or what --

      21    what work she's doing.

      22         Q    I take it you have seen the First








                                                              84


       1    Lady in your suite from time to time?

       2         A    No, I have not.

       3         Q    Have you ever met Mrs. Clinton?

       4         A    I'm sure I have on one or two

       5    occasions at, you know, large White House

       6    events.

       7         Q    Have you ever talked to her about

       8    any of the things you're working on?

       9         A    No, sir.

      10         Q    Did you ever talk to the President

      11    about things that you're working on?

      12         A    No, sir.  Basically, Merry

      13    Christmas is about the extent of my

      14    conversation with them.

      15         Q    Has anyone in your office?

      16         A    No, not to my knowledge.  I think

      17    if anyone was in my office were going to be,

      18    it would be me and, no, I was not.

      19         Q    Have you ever been invited to the

      20    White House residence?

      21         A    I believe only on one occasion.

      22         Q    When was that?








                                                              85


       1         A    It was a 60th birthday party.

       2         Q    For who?

       3         A    Ann Lewis.

       4         Q    You know Ann Lewis pretty well,

       5    don't you?

       6         A    Professionally, sure, I work for

       7    her.

       8         Q    Your time in working for the White

       9    House, how long have you worked there in any

      10    capacity?

      11         A    February 1997.  Since February of

      12    1997, late February I believe.

      13         Q    Do you know of anyone having been

      14    invited to social functions in the residence

      15    who doesn't know the person that is subject

      16    to that social function?

      17         A    You'd have to rephrase that.  I

      18    don't know what you're asking me.

      19         Q    I mean, you just can't walk into

      20    the residence, can you, for any old party,

      21    can you as a White House employee, based on

      22    your knowledge?








                                                              86


       1         A    Again, I don't know what you're

       2    asking me.

       3         Q    What I'm saying is you were invited

       4    to the residence for Ann Lewis' 60th birthday

       5    party, to the best of your knowledge, because

       6    you knew her pretty well, correct?

       7         A    Yeah, although there were probably

       8    60 people there or something.

       9         Q    But is it fair to say that just

      10    because you work at the White House doesn't

      11    mean that you can go to a birthday party for

      12    Ann Lewis in the residence? You have to be

      13    specially invited, right?

      14         A    Yeah, that's fair.

      15              MR. KLAYMAN:  Let's take a

      16    five-minute break.  And my appointment for

      17    lunch was postponed, so we won't have that

      18    issue.

      19              MS. GILES:  Oh, good.

      20              VIDEO TECHNICIAN:  We're going off

      21    record at 10:35 Eastern Standard Time.

      22                   (Janenda Deposition Exhibit








                                                              87


       1                   No. 3 was marked for

       2                   identification.)

       3                   (Recess)

       4              VIDEO TECHNICIAN:  We're back on

       5    video record at 10:47 Eastern Standard Time.

       6              THE WITNESS:  Mr. Klayman, if I

       7    might clarify something.

       8              MR. KLAYMAN:  Yes.

       9              THE WITNESS:  Regarding Brenda

      10    Costello.  I -- she is -- to my knowledge,

      11    the only thing beyond the fact that she works

      12    for the First Lady, she, to my knowledge,

      13    prepares her briefing book, her daily like

      14    trip briefing book as to who she's going to

      15    be -- you know, whatever the briefing book

      16    consist of.  My general knowledge would be

      17    who is greeting you at the airport, whose

      18    home you're going to, that kind of

      19    information, and I -- if I didn't understand

      20    the question.

      21              BY MR. KLAYMAN:

      22         Q    Well, I think you understood the








                                                              88


       1    question, but did you talk to your counsel

       2    during the intermission here before you

       3    decided that you wanted to tell me that?

       4         A    I personally made the decision

       5    before I walked out the door that I was going

       6    to say this.

       7         Q    During this break did you talk to

       8    your counsel?

       9         A    Before I talked to my counsel I --

      10    I don't know what I'm trying to get to -- I

      11    informed them that I wanted to clarify

      12    something for the record.

      13         Q    When did this thought come to you?

      14         A    Well, I couldn't understand why

      15    there was such a great interest in some of

      16    the questions, so I got -- I was thinking

      17    about it and that's -- I wanted to clarify

      18    the record.

      19         Q    Let me clarify something, too.

      20              Are you giving me responses based

      21    upon what you think my motivation is in

      22    asking the questions?








                                                              89


       1         A    No, sir.

       2              MS. GILES:  There's no need to

       3    badger the witness.  He's trying to be

       4    complete.

       5              MR. KLAYMAN:  I'm not badgering.

       6    That's what he just said.

       7              MS. GILES:  He's trying to be

       8    complete.

       9              MR. KLAYMAN:  That's what he just

      10    said.

      11              THE WITNESS:  It's not what I said.

      12              MR. KLAYMAN:  That he couldn't

      13    figure out my motivation, so when he finally

      14    did, that's when he came up with this

      15    response.

      16              THE WITNESS:  No.  What I'm saying

      17    is I didn't -- I'm trying to answer as fully

      18    as I can and the fact that my answer wasn't

      19    good enough led me to rethink and try to pick

      20    my brain better.

      21              BY MR. KLAYMAN:

      22         Q    But you did talk to counsel during








                                                              90


       1    the intermission?

       2         A    I told them -- I informed them --

       3              MS. GILES:  Don't tell him what you

       4    told us.

       5              THE WITNESS:  All right.

       6              MS. GILES:  But you can clarify

       7    whether you said --

       8              BY MR. KLAYMAN:

       9         Q    How did you learn that Ms. Brenda

      10    Costello handled the briefing book for Mrs.

      11    Clinton?

      12         A    Part of my -- that's what my -- the

      13    extent of my knowledge, she works for the

      14    First Lady.  She does the briefing book.

      15         Q    Who told you that?

      16         A    I just couldn't tell you.  It's

      17    just something that is known.  I mean she did

      18    the briefing book.

      19         Q    Have you seen her doing the

      20    briefing book, observed it?

      21         A    I've seen her run out of the office

      22    at 8:00 o'clock delivering something that was








                                                              91


       1    the briefing book.  That's the extent of it.

       2         Q    But you didn't know that was the

       3    briefing book?

       4         A    I don't know.  I'm not clear on

       5    what you're asking me.

       6         Q    Well, how did you know what she's

       7    carrying out of the office at 8:00 p.m. is a

       8    briefing book?

       9         A    Because --

      10         Q    How do you come to that knowledge?

      11         A    Just generally known she works for

      12    the First Lady and she prepares the briefing

      13    book.  I mean there are --

      14         Q    But you don't know specifically

      15    that what she leaves with at 8:00 p.m. is a

      16    briefing book, correct?

      17         A    Did I read it?  Is that what you're

      18    asking me?

      19         Q    No, whether you know.  I can't make

      20    questions more simple than this.

      21         A    I did not read what -- what it is

      22    that was described as the briefing brook.  We








                                                              92


       1    have to -- you know, I have to get it to the

       2    First Lady by 8:00 o'clock.

       3         Q    I'm asking whether you knew it was

       4    the briefing book.

       5         A    Beyond taking her at her word or

       6    something, no.

       7         Q    So she's told you that that's what

       8    she was carrying, was the briefing book?

       9         A    I'm sure that's probably happened

      10    on occasion, yes.

      11         Q    So you have communicated with her

      12    about what she does, correct?

      13         A    In passing her in the hallway or

      14    her coming out of her office, you know,

      15    hello.  How are you?  I'm great.  I've got to

      16    get this over there before X time or

      17    something, generally, like that.  That's the

      18    extent of it.

      19         Q    And she said I've got to get this

      20    briefing book to the First Lady?

      21         A    Right.  I'm not -- and to be clear,

      22    I'm sure that that has happened.  I couldn't








                                                              93


       1    tell you a specific occasion, but that is the

       2    general nature of, you know.  Any

       3    conversation I've had with her about it.

       4         Q    Did you ever go to lunch with her?

       5         A    No.

       6         Q    Did you ever have coffee with her?

       7         A    No.

       8         Q    Did you ever go into her office and

       9    talk to her for a bit?

      10         A    I'm sure that's happened, yes.

      11         Q    She has a chair in her office other

      12    than the one she sits in?

      13         A    I believe she does, yeah.

      14         Q    And you've sat down and rapped with

      15    her for a little bit from time to time?

      16         A    I'm sure I said hello, how are you,

      17    that kind of thing.

      18         Q    And surely you must have said what

      19    kinds of things do you do?

      20         A    No.  This is there I mean I

      21    think -- no, I have not had that conversation

      22    with her.








                                                              94


       1         Q    Does she have a filing cabinet in

       2    the office of hers?  Surely you must have

       3    observed one.

       4         A    I -- honestly I think she has a

       5    bookcase.  I don't know whether she has a

       6    file cabinet.

       7         Q    Does she keep storage of documents

       8    or other types of things elsewhere in the

       9    suite?

      10         A    She has -- I believe she has a

      11    bookcase on the wall facing outside of her

      12    office, but the wall of her office there's a

      13    second, best of my recollection, a second

      14    bookcase.

      15         Q    A bookcase or a file cabinet?

      16         A    Bookcase.

      17         Q    I'm talking about does she keep

      18    documents in that bookcase?

      19         A    My -- I believe she has binders is

      20    my recollection.

      21         Q    She keeps copies of correspondence

      22    in the binders?








                                                              95


       1         A    I don't know what she keeps in the

       2    binders. They're binders.

       3         Q    Have you ever opened up any of

       4    those binders?

       5         A    No, sir, I don't believe so.

       6         Q    Has anyone else?

       7         A    Has anyone else?

       8         Q    That you know of?

       9         A    I -- I couldn't say.  That I know

      10    of, no.

      11         Q    Are there procedures in your office

      12    for storing and documents, computer disks and

      13    other things, for retaining them, storing

      14    them?

      15         A    The communications research office?

      16         Q    Yes.

      17         A    You'd have to clarify a little bit.

      18    Yes, I believe there are.

      19         Q    What are they?  What procedures do

      20    you have?

      21         A    Within our office --

      22         Q    Yes.








                                                              96


       1         A    -- we have, you know, sort of

       2    establishing where certain things are kept I

       3    guess I would say.

       4         Q    Are there written instructions on

       5    where to keep things?

       6         A    Within my office, no, I don't

       7    believe so, no.

       8         Q    You're the one that conveys to the

       9    staff where to keep things?

      10         A    Or among -- I mean it's a small

      11    staff, so it wouldn't just be like myself

      12    dictating them.  It would be someone else

      13    saying let's keep CQs here.

      14         Q    Tell me what is stored in your

      15    office currently.

      16         A    Catalog?  You have to be more

      17    specific.

      18         Q    I can't be more specific than that.

      19         A    What is stored in my office.

      20         Q    What is stored in your office?

      21         A    In general terms, I have a -- in my

      22    office --








                                                              97


       1         Q    Not just your office, but in the

       2    suite itself.

       3         A    I was trying to -- you asked me

       4    about my office.

       5         Q    That's fine.  Take it in the order

       6    you want.

       7         A    There's a file cabinet in my office

       8    which contains information that comes in from

       9    like newsletters and public policy papers

      10    from specific organizations.

      11         Q    What organizations?

      12         A    A host of organizations.

      13         Q    Name some.

      14         A    The Heritage Foundation, the

      15    Brookings Institute, the -- no -- Domestic

      16    Policy Council or DPC from up on Capitol

      17    Hill.  I mean just a variety of newsletters

      18    and policy papers that come to the office we

      19    keep them by organization.

      20         Q    Do you routinely store materials

      21    printed off the Internet in that file

      22    cabinet?








                                                              98


       1         A    No.  To the best of my

       2    recollection, that's -- I'm not saying it

       3    isn't possible that there is something

       4    printed from the particular groups that's in

       5    there, but, as a general practice, that's

       6    information that comes in the mail.

       7         Q    What else information is in the

       8    file cabinet?

       9         A    That's about it.  I think that's

      10    all that's in there.

      11         Q    Now, tell me what else is kept

      12    either in your office or throughout the

      13    suite, what is kept and maintained.

      14         A    I have a small bookcase next to my

      15    desk that has various books that either I've

      16    loaned from the OEOB library for speeches

      17    that I'm trying to help with research on,

      18    also some personal books that I own that are

      19    sort of historical facts and figures type

      20    books.  I have a credenza behind the unit

      21    that has got one -- one small file drawer in

      22    it that has, generally, like the things I'm








                                                              99


       1    working on, those types of files.  And that's

       2    pretty much, I believe, all that's in my

       3    office.

       4         Q    What things are you working on

       5    right now?

       6         A    What things am I working on right

       7    now.

       8         Q    That you would keep in that

       9    credenza.

      10         A    I have a number of files related to

      11    a nomination that I'm working on.

      12         Q    Nomination of who?

      13         A    James Hormel, Ambassadorial

      14    nominee.

      15         Q    To Luxenberg?

      16         A    Correct.

      17         Q    What else?

      18         A    I believe there's a couple of files

      19    on the vacancies act, there are a couple of

      20    files on -- what else?  I -- I can't recall

      21    what else.  I'm sure there are other files in

      22    there, but off the top of my head I can't








                                                              100


       1    recall what they are.

       2         Q    Do you have files on Bob Barr?

       3         A    No, sir, no where in the office.

       4         Q    Do you have files on Richard Mellon

       5    Scaife?

       6         A    No, sir, no where in the office.

       7         Q    Do you have files on the American

       8    Spectator?

       9         A    I don't believe there are files.

      10    I'm sure -- we get the magazine, so I'm sure

      11    there are copies of the magazine, but there's

      12    no files.  I personally looked through the

      13    files and there are no files in our office.

      14         Q    The suite you're talking about?

      15         A    In the -- the research -- again,

      16    the suite is divided.  In my -- any of the

      17    people in my staff or our file cabinets there

      18    are no such files.

      19         Q    Files on David Hale?

      20         A    No, sir, not anywhere in the

      21    office.

      22         Q    Files on Newt Gingrich?

 

 

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