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Judicial Watch • 2011 voterfraudpaneltranscript-08022011

2011 voterfraudpaneltranscript-08022011

2011 voterfraudpaneltranscript-08022011

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MR. TOM FITTON:  Welcome everyone our panel here Judicial Watch.  Im Tom Fitton.  Im president Judicial Watch and were here discuss today the topic the Voter Fraud Threat Free and Fair Elections.   
Judicial Watch conservative, non-partisan educational foundation dedicated promoting transparency, accountability, integrity government politics and the law.  Through our educational endeavors advocate high standards ethics and morality our nations public life.  And seek ensure that political and judicial officials obey the law and not abuse the powers entrusted them the American people. not endorse oppose candidates for public office. 
The integrity elections taken for granted many Americans, but cannot, must remain vigilant. the Supreme Court noted 2006, confidence the integrity our electoral processes essential the functioning our participatory democracy.  Voter fraud drives honest citizens out the democratic process and breeds distrust our government.  Voters who fear their legitimate votes will outweighed fraudulent ones will feel disenfranchised. 
Unfortunately, our history  (inaudible)  with elections whose results have been called into question not for good for bad, because allegations fraud and misconduct.  Whether the Daley machine Chicago for JFK, hanging chads Florida for George Bush, even presidential elections the modern age have been called into question.  Some even make the credible argument that voter fraud handed United States Senate seat Franken which helped cement the Democratic majority for the first two years the Obama presidency.  Judicial Watch, the way, for the record independently counted disputed ballots its own Florida and found that indeed George Bush, the governor, beat Vice President Gore. 
The integrity the 2008 election was called into question the fraudulent activities Project Vote/ACORN operation which was ally and former employer Barack Obama. the 1.3 million voter registrations gathered them for the 2010 vote, least 400,000 were thrown out.  According Judicial Watchs ongoing investigation, ACORN and its various affiliates and most notably, course, Project Vote have been implicated least well-documented election fraud schemes states, including just this year Nevada.  All that further confirms the endemic corruption that pro-Obama voter registration effort.   
ACORN and Project Vote seem want overwhelm the system.  Using the Freedom Information Act, Judicial Watch obtained documents 2007 investigation Missouri that showed that the FBI found that those working for Project Vote and ACORN sought to, quote, cause confusion election day keep polls open longer, quote, allow people who cant vote vote and allow people vote multiple times.  Moreover, the FBI found instances canvassers thinking that they used completely fake name, would less like theft.    
Many Americans might thinking that ACORN and Project Vote disappeared after these voter registration scandals and the release undercover video showing ACORN operatives advising undercover investigative reporters how avoid tax, immigration and child prostitution laws.  But these groups are still good.   
This week Judicial Watch will release the results new investigation that shows ACORN/Project Vote bullied Colorado officials into implementing new policies for increasing the registration public assistance recipients during the 2008 and 2010 elections.  This push was make easier for those welfare and other public assistance register vote.  But following the policy changes Colorado, the percentage invalid registration forms Colorado Public Assistance Agency four times the national average. result the collaboration, the number voter registration Colorado Public Assistance Agency rose from 3,340 2007 almost 44,000 2010.  However, the collaboration also led, said, large number invalid and duplicate voter registrations. total percent rejected registration forms came from public assistance agencies Colorado 2009 and 2010.  This is, again, more than four times the national average 1.9 percent for that same time period.   
Unfortunately, many  (inaudible)  efforts stamp out voter fraud.  Then Senator Obama attacked efforts the Bush Justice Department prosecute voter fraud.  And now his Justice Department run the pliant Attorney General Eric Holder has simply turned blind eye ACORN/Project Votes historic levels voter registration fraud. one imagined that the tea party turned 400,000 fraudulent false voter registrations. 
Were lucky here have excellent group experts discuss our topic, folks who have been the front lines and investigated these issues ways frankly that havent been done before.   
John Fund, far left, contributor Fox New Channel and senior editor the American Spectator magazine.  Hes frequent contributor publications such the Wall Street Journal, Readers Digest, and National Review. the author several books, including his most recent, most pertinent this discussion, Stealing Elections: How Voter Fraud Threatens Our Democracy. 
Also joining immediate left Christian Adams who served the voting section the United States Department Justice where brought wide range election cases protect racial minorities ranging from vote dilution redistricting losses. also brought cases involving military voting protections and voter intimidation cases, including one against the New Black Panther Party which case you may have all heard about. litigated very successful Voting Rights Act case the United States vs. Ike Brown, marking the first use the law protect discriminated against white minority.  Part his time DOJ served general counsel South Carolina secretary state and was private practice Virginia.  Hes also contributing columnist covering elections the Justice Department and key reporter this issue and hes written various publications like the Examiner and the Washington Times.  And has upcoming book about voter fraud the Justice Department. you have title for that one yet?   
MR. FITTON:  Injustice.  And last but not certainly least citizen activist, Catherine Engelbrecht whos president King Street Patriots, organization that you should hearing more about true vote.  She was born Richmond, Texas, and shes president high-precision oilfield machine shop started 1994 her and her husband, Bryan.  Prior 2008, Catherine had little involvement the political arena like lot tea party activists.  She was what could called life activist.  With roles wife, mother, founder and board member her church, and officer her childrens schools PTO, city volunteer, business owner, she had plenty focus on. And she believed, many Americans believe, that government was best left politicians who could relied upon their best behalf the American people. suspect thats changed bit recently without getting into why and whos blame. 2009 she started the King Street Patriots support and defend American exceptionalism, constitutional governance and civic duty.  From King Street Patriots came the True the Vote initiative, citizen-led effort restore honor and integrity our electoral system.  True the Vote educates voters, researches the veracity voter registries, trains and mobilizes volunteers who working polling places, and advocates for comprehensive election code form legislation. are pleased joined this excellent panel.  And could remind the panelists what have not been doing and speaking directly into the microphone those you listening the Internet can actually hear what were saying. 
So, John, Ill  the way this will work  and encourage you  ask you all turn off your cell phones dont get interfered with proceed.  Our panels will make presentations, Ill ask few questions that cover topics that may have been missed, and then well open the floor questions and comments from you. turn the microphone over Mr. Fund, John. 
MR. JOHN FUND:  Great.  Thank you, Tom.  And Judicial Watch has certainly done yeomans effort the investigation ACORN.  Its pleasing see such large group people assemble 2:00 p.m. such marvelous summer day. thank you for being civic-minded.  But your presence here indicates just how important lot people think this issue is.  Im taking time off right now completely rewrite book election fraud and election administration. sympathize with Christian and what hes just gone through.   
And one the things found how consistently over time Americans are concerned about this issue, about the broader issue whether not our votes count because have two civil rights this country when comes voting that are paramount.   
One  and fought great civil rights struggle over this the 1960s  people should free intimidation, artificial barriers voting. fought long battle make sure that there wouldnt literacy tests and poll taxes and other devices that would prevent people from voting, that block the proverbial voting door.  And need remember that struggle and need preserve those gains.   
However, theres another civil right and its equally powerful and important civil right.  Every American has the right not have their vote canceled out because someone voting who shouldnt voting, voting twice, ineligible vote, dead illegal alien has voted multiple times variety devices that sort cancel out legitimate votes.  Your vote can cancelled out two ways: youre prevented intimidated from voting someone votes and cancels out your vote.  And need preserve both civil rights. 
The American people are very concerned about the administration our elections.  Consistently over the last years, about percent Americans believed there are serious doubts whether not their vote passes accurately and really counts.  Some that are people who believe there are artificial barriers and impediments voting, and awful lot that people who believe that there voter fraud, there are things that compromise the integrity elections.  And there are other people who just dont trust the administration elections and they have concern all three counts. 
One the important things that say book its not just voter fraud that were concerned about, its also administrative incompetence.  Walter Dean Burnham, who the leading political scientist, the dean American political scientists, you will, has said that America has the sloppiest voting systems any industrialized democracy.  And part that our strength because have decentralized system and part that simply have  weve been complacent. simply havent believed that there were many problems they were our election system.   
And sometimes the real problem our country with loosey-goosey laws that are vague and subject different interpretations and not clearly enforced.  You cant tell where the incompetence ends and where fraud begins.  You have very vague amorphous situation which you cant really tell what the motive the reason for the election screw-up but you can tell the elections been compromised.   
And the Supreme Court reminds recent unanimous ruling upholding Arizona photo law, when election result compromised that significant number people questions legitimacy that goes the very core our democracy, the people not believe the election was legitimate the results can trusted, the will tend not vote.  They will tend question the actions their elected representatives whether not theyre legitimate.  And they will lose faith the system whole. all have stake ensuring the integrity and the accurate administration elections.   
Now, two things have happened that know Christian going into more detail this well Catherine  two things have happened recently that are great concern me.  One that simple common sense reform backed percent the American people, namely the requirement that photo identification shown the polls, has undergone vicious attack people who question not just the efficacy this measure but the very motives the people who are proposing it.   
Photo supported every demographic group America.  You cant get percent approval for anything the polls anymore, including maybe  even apple pie.  Some people dont like apple pie and some people are estranged from their parents. percent pretty much close unanimity  two-thirds African-Americans support it; two-thirds Hispanics; two-thirds liberals, two-thirds Democrats.   
But, for some reason, this has become the focal point vicious attack anyone who would propose this election reform.  President Barack Obama, when was senator, said today the poll tax taking new form, photo identification requirement for voter.   
Debbie Wasserman Schultz who his handpicked chair the Democratic National Committee said you have  Republicans want literally drag all the way back Jim Crow laws and literally and very transparently lock access the polls voters who are more likely vote.   
Former President Bill Clinton said one the most pervasive political movements going outside Washington today the determined effort keep most youth from voting next time.  There has never been lifetime since got rid the poll tax and the Jim Crow laws the determined effort limit the franchise that see today.   
Phil Noble, president the South Carolina New Democrats said last month, instead having hoods and Klan meetings, weve dressed law but still has the same effect barrier keeping black folks from voting.   
Now, suspect most these people know better that were not returning the era Jim Crow. ask any you  photo has become part and parcel living modern society, especially since 9/11. have show photo fly plane. have show  have photo available ride train. have have photo cash check. have have photo enter federal building.  Some office buildings, private office buildings require photo ID.   
For those who say photo discriminates against Americans without one, Im sure there are few people who dont have photo and say were doing them favor, paraphrase  quote Andrew Young the former mayor Atlanta and colleague Martin Luther Kings, were doing people favor getting them photo ID, free photo ID.  You cannot part the mainstream American life today without photo ID.  Therefore, lets get photo the hands everyone, not just means identify people when theyve voting but make sure that theyre part our larger society. the same time that have this assault photo ID, have the Obama administration Justice Department engaging series very questionable moves, which Christian will into more detail, which seems indicate that they want tilt the playing field one direction and thats against the direction more scrutiny, the integrity elections, whether suggest that people should required prove theyre citizen when they vote, show photo ID, whole range areas where theres been previously broad consensus election reform thats needed.  They have challenged that and made very questionable rulings. all this brings the 2012 election.  You may have noticed that elections have gotten closer America.  Were divided nation, blue states versus red states.  The 2000 election just showed how close the contest can be.  That recount Florida, which think had more incompetence administrative oversight than perhaps  (inaudible)  fraud, nonetheless showed just how divided can become, how big the stakes are, because still live with many the scars that election  (off mike)  recounts. dont want through such situation again.  The way prevent another Florida style recount meltdown take steps today that will increase confidence every American the integrity our elections and the accuracy the vote count. dont that, suspect were heading very close election again 2012 and all the polls tell that. are going see enough invective and enough vitriol and enough questioning peoples motives, even dont have any questions about the integrity the elections.  Imagine how divided will be, imagine how much more difficult would for solve our fiscal problems, our debt problems, come together any kind consensus have another election 2012 that resembles all the kind furious contest and bitter dispute that had 2000.   
And the danger even greater that will have 2012 because 2000 one was expecting the election that close. one had  there had not been the arms race lawyers that see today. 2012 guarantee you there will thousands lawyers both sides the political spectrum waiting enter contest, challenge it, litigate court and once again try drag the results away from the ballot box into courtroom. cannot afford that. cant afford that nation.  Our problems are too big.  Our challenges are too big. have act now make sure have election which whomever wins, theres the confidence and legitimacy the voters and will take office with such legitimacy that they will able help solve our problems.   
MR. FITTON:  Thank you, John Fund. will turn over Catherine Engelbrecht.  Thank you, Catherine.  
MS. CATHERINE ENGELBRECHT:  Thank you.  Thank you, Tom, for inviting here.  Thank you, Judicial Watch.  Thanks all you for taking time out the day. can assure you that couple years ago never wildest imagination would sitting panel like this having these discussions.  But would like share with you the journey that brought here and encourage the end for all you find yourselves similar journey because think that nothing less than the stake our republic hand you dont involve. 
That say that 2008 found myself sort swept into what all now know lovingly the tea party movement.  For was hearing Rick Santelli the floor the Chicago Mercantile Exchange just throw out whomever was listening  and happened one the folks listening  you know, what are doing here? think its about time that citizens get involved.  And, you heard Tom say, had political background. thought Ill just step into it.  Ill just step into this. the tea party was become something, wanted engage.  And one thing led the next and found myself going rallies and Id never done anything like that before.  Id never bought poster board and glue paint make sign for anything since was the fifth grade science project. was such new experience.  But the bottom line was really just transitory phase coming grips with the fact that have voices citizens and that while had always for most adult life thought that you just elect  you hire the right people put into office, you hire the right guy and they and they their job and citizenry largely ends when you cast your vote, had real understanding the importance  and shame that had real understanding the importance civic engagement.   
And started organization called King Street and set about looking for things that could do.  Election integrity wasnt top list the ways involved but wanted something.  And this now 2009, had been told that there was need for people and work with the polls. thought, can that.  Thats simple enough.  Well  and had this vision being the person that hands out the little I Voted sticker.  That was going big contribution for the day.  And really changed path personally because what saw the day that  about the time that worked the polls.   
Now,  (inaudible)  were around Houston, Texas.  Houston, Texas, not known  Texas general not known hotbed voter fraud. certainly had intent  (inaudible)  and expected that. had been trained the county. thought that would just standard operating procedure.  And what saw set back our heels because saw people who would come and not show any form identification whatsoever and passed right through the voting booth.  Now, Texas you  know some states you dont but Texas the time there were different forms that you can show.  You can show your blockbuster video card.  That was sufficient.  But you had show something.  And that was not even being exercised.    
More disturbing still though saw people who would come and say, dont remember who vote for.  And then the election judge would escort them the voting booth and cast their vote for them.  Now, what Im speaking please hear clearly, way asserting that there should not assistance when assistance needed, okay?  There are people who have language barriers, they need assistance.  People who have physical limitations, they need assistance.  People who dont understand how operate the equipment just the process, thats not what Im talking about.  What Im talking about people who literally didnt know who vote for went the voting booth and you would hear comments like, this how you vote for this party. 2010 had people our ballot.  And you would hear them say, people thats awful lot you just, know you want  (inaudible)  again.  Just heres how you vote.  Just press these top two  you click two the left, three the right, punch and youre done.  And effectively what was happening was that person was having their vote stolen right out from underneath them. 
Ladies and gentlemen, when you see something like that, you home and pretend that hadnt happened, you are nothing more than accomplice the crime.  And couldnt. decided that wed get involved and would see  what was the depth the problem that faced our community, what was the depth the problem possibly across the nation. had idea.  What knew were  would mean two things essentially. knew what wed seen and knew that there was desperate need for people work the polls across the country.   
And with that mind decided deconstruct the process soup nuts. began look how names and how registrations are added into our registry, looking the accuracy our registry general, encouraging people work the polls, and then all along the way collecting data that would either bear out support the need for election vote reform, comprehensive reform the legislature.  And each step not going with any preconceived notion what might find but rather saying, look, was always the intention for citizens involved. think  you know, certainly John and Christian and here what happens Judicial Watch, they represent  (audio break)  the process.  Its critical that the process one integrity.  But that integrity largely dependent the most fundamental levels citizen engagement. are facing pandemic shortage election workers both sides.   
And from all this then came True the Vote which essentially now fully exportable model that trains citizens engaged all levels the process irrespective political party.  The end the line message True the Vote lets just play the rules.  Let the best man win but let fair and honest process.  That something that citizens  its our birth right American citizens. have get engaged.   
And observation does change things. while today the course the panel well talk about the laws that are certainly being, John rightly pointed out, the mystery surrounding photo voter and how anybody can opposed that.  And certainly were seeing the vitriol fires stoked for questionable purposes, might suggest.   
All the other issues that having with process, having with legislation. message you today citizens each one has responsibility make election day red letter day our calendars. have the lowest voter turnout any industrialized nation.  When you talk people and you question where their value that vote, the vote that people fought and died for, its often sort just slept off.  Were removed  were far removed from our government matters.  Does really matter?  Does our voting really count?   
But, ladies and gentlemen, everything that were talking about here, you know from the debt ceiling debate that weve just had, point anything  point immigration, point immigration  all the topics the day presuppose the underpinning free and fair election process squarely place that the vote the people fact their voice for their elected and that the elected are serving because they have been appointed fair course. that not true, then weve got much bigger problems stake.   
And begin turn into the straightaway the 2012 cycle, are encouraging people across the country begin working with their counties, understanding where the weaknesses are their counties and where citizens can involved.  And there are wonderful vehicles already written into federal law that support citizens rights engage through citizen challenges, through the records request the state level, the foyers the federal level get involved, far beyond just going and casting your ballot and getting your sticker when youre done.  Its our responsibility.  Its our responsibility decide who  (inaudible).  And its not responsibility that should take lightly. have two young children. fully believe that not, this generation, step into the gap, will lose free and fair process.  Youre already seeing certain states that are for number reasons chiefly among them lack citizen participation saying, its easier just straight mail in.  Why you even need polls anymore?  And its because citizens have lost touch with their real contribution, their real power voice. True the Vote now going nationwide.  Were working with really countless, tens thousands people.  Our goal train and mobilize million new election workers into the 2012 process. ambitious but more frightening possibly the fact that its needed because are not doing our own.  And so, the extent that can voice for that, voice for supporting the process either side the aisle, just engage.  Just get engaged.  Observation changes things.   
And Im thrilled here, thrilled have opportunity talk about where were headed, internally optimistic.  These are exciting times.  Were living historic days.  And thrilling see citizens engaging many levels. believe that engagement going send ripple effect through our elections 2012 the likes which you cannot possibly imagine.  And think its all for the good.  
MR. FITTON:  Thank you very much, Catherine. appreciate your leadership.  And just personal note encouragement.  Those you who dont know, Im going ask her  (inaudible)  for obvious reasons but she and the folks around her have been subjected personally some cases retaliatory lawsuits for their activism.  And she tries suppress obviously further activism like the one which shes talking about today. you have lot more stake than, you point out, those the 30,000 feet view, John, Christian, myself.  Christian also happens Catherines lawyer.  But probably wont litigating any lawsuits here.  But your expertise certainly the frontlines the Justice Department going very interesting hear about, what happened and what ought happen. 
MR. ADAMS:  Indeed.  Thank you, Tom.  Thanks Judicial Watch.  Its very good that they are the folks putting into the forefront this early because the 2012 elections for practical purposes are happening right now.  What mean that from election administrative perspectives, these next six, seven, eight months are what going determine the state play 2012.  What are states, secretaries state doing enforce various federal laws?  What are the voter rolls going look like?   
John mentioned Colorado  Tom mentioned Colorado actually.  And mentioned something fascinating and told you half the story.  Ill tell you the other half.  You might remember that mentioned that ACORN was very aggressive getting registration Colorado before the 2000 election.  Theres another side that story. the same exact time that was happening, left wing groups were very aggressive stopping voter purges Colorado.  And they brought lawsuits under Section Eight the motor voter law, which Ill talk more about minute, prevent the Colorado secretary state from cleaning the voter rolls dead, ineligible votes. its double whammy.  You have groups like ACORN getting people registered and groups like the Advancement Project and other George Soros funded organizations preventing enforcement federal law. let give some credit Catherine that Ill tell you why roundabout way.  The other entity that has the power enforce federal law the Justice Department.  Its the voting section the Justice Department.  And under Section Eight motor voter, the Justice Department can step into states and say, you have too many dead people the rolls youre not doing purges, youre violating Section Eight the motor vote, okay?  You have too many dead people the rolls they did Missouri during the Bush administration.  They enforced Section Eight the motor voter.  The Bush administration also enforced Section Seven motor voter which one the favored fables the left that the Bush Justice Department did enforce that provisional law but they did. the two provisions are meant counterpart, Section Seven and Section Eight.   
Well, sat meeting during the Obama administration Justice Department, which Ive written about extensively Pajamas Media, which will cover new book called Injustice, where Julie Fernandes, who the political appointee charge the voting section, announced that theres interest enforcing Section Eight, that there only interest enforcing Section Seven.  And, you know, the Justice Department never denied it.  They never denied the Office Professional Responsibility report the Black Panther dismissal.  They never denied it.  And their behavior conformity with Julie Fernandes instructions. two and half years, this Justice Department has done Section Eight investigations. matter fact, Chris Coates, the former voting section chief who did the Black Panther case with me, testified that recommended eight investigations because there were states that had more people the rolls than people with heartbeat.  And Julie Fernandes and Loretta King and Tom Perez and Eric Holder not want these kind cases forward, which brings Catherine back into the story.  Catherine and her organization, True the Vote, doing what Eric Holder will not do.   
True the Vote doing investigations, particularly Harris County, where they are finding people  and this jolly good story  theyre actually marking the voter registration forms where says, are you U.S. citizen?  You have choice, yes no.  True the Vote found multiple voter registration forms registered voters Harris County that marked no, that they were not U.S. citizens. ahead.  Get the rolls anyhow.  Well, gets better. alerted the Justice Department about this October 2010 prior the elections, along with other indications Section Eight motor voter being violated Harris County. gave them the evidence, the documents, the cover letter that explained for them they didnt have learn from scratch.   
And, you know, never received the courtesy reply from this Justice Department involving referral. FBI agents have come calling looking for details. lawsuit has been brought.  Theyve done nothing. theres people Harris County who are not U.S. citizens who are registered vote which they vote federal crime.  But theres interest that here.  And Ill tell you some the reasons why.   
There entire industry  and call the vote fraud deniers, the vote fraud deniers.  Theyre out there designed run interference through variety means, which Ill through minute, prevent this sort thing, this law enforcement from taking place.  Now, thankfully, people like Catherine and now Judicial Watch, were looking the data that just came out from the 2010 election and there are counties across this country with more registered voters than living adults.  The data plain sight for Eric Holder something about.   
For example, many are Mississippi.  Today Mississippi holding election, Democratic and Republican primaries.  Justice Department officials are flooding Mississippi today monitor these elections but theyre not going look into this.  Theres counties like Leflore, Walthall, Tunica that have more people the rolls than they have people alive these counties.   
 Now, what the vote fraud deniers prevent investigations like this?  Theres three steps.  The first one deny the vote fraud even occurs.  This favorite initial tactic.  The voter fraud myth. will never forget Justin Levitt, who was one the kings the vote fraud deniers the Brennan Center, and Michael Waldman wrote piece the Washington Post, The Myth Voter Fraud.  Remember, step one deny. said that voter fraud common Sasquatch.  When was the Justice Department voting section, somebody who worked there put this their door advertise everybody there that voter fraud myth. shouldnt really care about it. thats step one.   
People like Tova Wang Demos  these groups all tend get checks from George Soros, incidentally. you some research, youll find this.  Tova Wang Demos wrote report that there was voter fraud the 2010 election. was clean.  Nothing illegal happened. you know when Tova Wang wrote that report? was the day after the election. was she had sitting her hard drive for weeks and then the day after the election Tova Wang publishes report there was voter fraud yesterday.  Ive polled all over the country and indeed found none. 
Catherine asked great question: how much fraud okay, which takes step two the voter fraud denier industry established.  Step two when confronted with voter fraud, they have fallback position and they say, well, doesnt change the results the election shouldnt too concerned about if, Catherine asks, how much voter fraud okay?  Since doesnt change the results the election most cases they suggest that you not care about it, its not that big issue. they say its not very widespread, infinitesimal.  Its all Sasquatch. was purely mythical.  Now its just infinitesimal amounts vote fraud.  Once again, the Soros funded partisans tend advance this once you show examples about voter fraud.  
For example, Mississippi  woman  theres two voter fraud convictions recently. Mississippi woman named Lessadolla Sowers, Lessadolla like when you pay the parking.  She was executive committee member the NAACP Tunica County, Mississippi.  She voted the names multiple dead people and she was just sentenced years prison.  Another person named William McInerney, Troy New York City council member just within the last few weeks entered guilty pleas.  These are just two cases.  Theres dozens upon dozens more, but the voter fraud denial industry does not want you know about these cases because disrupts their narrative.   
So, remember, step two say its not that widespread. doesnt change the results the election.  When that fails, theres final step.  And the vote fraud deniers will take this last step, and youre seeing play out, and John mentioned, South Carolina  call everybody racist, attack them personally, sue them, attack their character.  This the last step and probably the most unsavory one because democracy like have, you cant talk about election mechanics and ways manipulate the system, what can you talk about? mean, this the fundamental for our entire system government, the notion that our system free and fair. 
Lastly, one last final tactic the vote fraud deniers language coordination. watched this occurring over the last seven months. these voter bills are being introduced all around the country, you will see language coordination probably coming from some the people that mentioned this speech where they would say things  love this one.  This new, tea party tactic.  Voter costs too much, the first time Ive ever heard them talk about cost voter ID.  But, you see, was hip 2011 worried about cost they started talking about cost.   
One their favorites, solution search problem.  Its funny how that exact sentence was showing newspaper articles Kansas, North Carolina, South Carolina, Texas, Rhode Island, Ohio anywhere there voter bill, was always solution search problem which course relates step one that its Sasquatch youre really looking for. all Im telling you that voter fraud exists and theres entire industry out there well-funded, devoted giving aid and comfort criminals.  There other way call than that, that they are enabling criminal behavior by, first all, denying its existence, denying the degree the behavior, and then, thirdly, attacking anyone who wants something about the criminal activity. thats sort different perspective voter fraud.  And Ill leave that.  Thank you very much. 
MR. FITTON:  Well, thank you all three for really excellent and educational presentations.  And now allow play the devils advocate here, especially the voter question. guess there are few lines (bargaining ?), think would worthwhile address, that its Republican effort suppress Democratic voters who tend minority, you know, they always tend minority and tend not have the contacts with government that would require IDs and that whether youre the 3,000-foot level 30,000-foot level, just have idea how they interact these communities. having government something that not needed. fact, some these communities are hostile the idea having government IDs.  And all youre doing just preventing people who you may not like voting for your opponents the opportunity ease new vote.  And when its not racially motivated, its partisan and has nothing with anything other than suppressing the wrong people from voting. 
MR. FUND:  Let take that   
MR. FITTON:  Not that agree with them.  Im just  the last three arguments  (inaudible)  from the president.  
MR. FUND:  No, no, no. least those are reasonable arguments that not question the motives those the other side.  Let address the partisan issue straight on.  Political power powerful drug.  People will awful lot things get political power.  There political party that  (inaudible)  this country. book through the 230-year story and infamous history voter fraud perpetuated everything.  There partisan distinction that emerged probably the last 50, years.  There used lot big city Republican local machines: Saint Louis, Chicago, Philadelphia.  The last one was  (inaudible)  Nassau County New York.  There was voter fraud both sides.  You can legitimately  even the 1960 presidential election where its thought that Mayor Daley deliberately stole votes the city Chicago from John Kennedy.  There was some, although not sufficient, compensating voter fraud downstate Illinois the Republican side.   
But something happened starting the 1940s, 50s.  The Republican machines basically fell apart.  And they were replaced Democratic machines.  Now, theres something about big city machines, the concentration votes, the need for the machine perpetuate its existence, the patronage politics that tends encourage voter fraud.  The same thing with rural counties where you have all-time rural political machines, such the one that was broken Ike Brown, Ike Browns political machine Noxubee County that Christian can attest to. there partisan intent voter fraud, its probably changed the last years that Democrats are better position, more likely position take advantage it.  Their political machines make easier so.  Its much more difficult suburban communities where Republicans  (inaudible)  much more difficult that.  This not just opinion.  Its the opinion Larry Sabato who the premier political scientist America today who wrote book the 1990s voter fraud and frankly confessed there partisan intent voter fraud. does not mean that the people charge the local party sanction agree with it, but may explain why some them wish look the other way perhaps create diversionary tactics.   
There still Republican voter fraud the hallows Kentucky and few other places and you can find some Republican  (inaudible)  recently convicted voter fraud including the local judge.  Having said that though there may some partisan consideration promoting issues such absentee ballot cleanups because thats where much the fraud takes place, photo ID.  That does not detract from the legitimacy the issue. exists, corrosive our governmental process, regardless whether not there partisan tinge it.  And many honest Democrats agree with this.   
Lets look what happened Rhode Island.  Three days before Bill Clinton made his famous speech comparing photo laws Jim Crow, what happened Rhode Island?  The Democratic legislature, and not just the narrow Democratic majority, four one Democratic legislatures from Rhode Island passed photo law. was signed the independent Governor Lincoln Chafee, who was liberal, who said, Im signing this law because requests from the minority community about voting fraud Providence and other cities.   
The sponsor this bill the Rhode Island State Senate was Harold Metts whos the only African-American the entire body.  This what said, minority citizen and senior citizen would not support anything thought would present obstacles limit protections.  This bill ensures one will denied the right vote. not about red state, blue state, whos the left whos the right.  Its about strengthening the peoples faith the system.   
And heres the money quote: Rhode Island State Representative Jon Brien, Democrats, this what said about all the attacks photo led people his own party, quote: I think that party leaders have tried make this Republican versus Democrat issue. not. simply good government issue. representatives have duty the citizens ensure the integrity our elections.  And the requirement show will ensure that integrity.  Those who are opposed voter never let the facts get the way real good emotional argument.  Thats the Democratic representative from Rhode Island. 
Now, after the bill passed the state Senate run Democrats and went the state House, who you think the sponsor that bill was?  The House speaker, Mr. Fox, who happens the only first African-American speaker Rhode Islands history. the local level, you have citizens acting from pressure from people like Catherine, including minority citizens, who are often the victims voter fraud because much the voter fraud perpetuated Michigan primaries.  You want see the worst voter fraud Ive ever seen the country?  Its Democratic primaries St. Louis and Detroit and places like that. the local level you have many citizens good will both parties acting concert, unison clean our elections because they recognize that the legitimacy elections are important. the national level, you have appalling contrast where you have people literally yelling racism crowded political theater, further dividing us.  This what were promised.  This not what Barack Obama suggested that should be.  You remember his famous speech  are not red states blue states.  Were only Americans.  This kind rhetoric and this kind rhetorical assault against the integrity people supporting election reform appalling and only divisive.  Its not what were promised. 
MR. FITTON:  Catherine, you suffered some these assaults first hand. you have any response question what John said? 
MS. ENGELBRECHT:  Well, speaking specifically the topic photo voter ID, this from practical aspect, consider this, ladies and gentlemen. you dont have photo voter ID, you still get vote.  You are just voting provisionally and that huge myth the narrative thats out there currently that photo voter denies you the opportunity.  Thats not the case. further check but you still have opportunity participate.  That point never mentioned, that subtle little point which changes the entire discussion. also say that supported Texas and just passed photo voter but was modeled Indianas law model and Georgias law.  And when you look those states, after they had passed photo voter IDs, they voter turnout actually increases.  Why would that the case?  Well, its because  opinion its because people feel renewed sense integrity being brought the process.  They feel like, yes, okay.  You know, were looking this such way that can now have little more confidence that when go, vote going count and counted. think its one many steps the right direction.  But anything can make improved  (audio break)  citizens confidence the process something that ought take look and not fooled the (shallow rhetoric thats out there right now.    
MR. FITTON:  Well, you know, Im going  unless you have something, Christian  Im going open the floor questions and comments. dont know weve got microphone for the audience members.  Okay.  Well, you speak least can hear you, will repeat your question comment.  And you could identify yourself well.  Yes, right the front.  How difficult get the illegals registered vote least get them the polls vote and then get them (involved ?)? 
MR. FITTON:  Okay.  The question how difficult get illegal aliens registered and voting.  And guess that would apply also aliens  (inaudible)  might add who are here illegally, who are here illegally. 
MR. FITTON: ahead. 
MR. ADAMS: couple things Id suggest look into.  Utah did legislative audit report want say about 2005, 2006, that catalogued illegal alien presence the voter rolls Utah the hundreds that participated elections.  The Utah Legislative Council IG, investigative body that went through the rolls and cross-referenced with ICE records participation Utah elections.  Theres data there.  New Mexico might have problem.  Colorado might have problem.  You know, Houston, Harris County saw  got one hand, the voter registration forms, people who claimed theyre not U.S. citizens registered vote.   
Now, this was exacerbated  Im not saying this justifies not having law, but motor voter exacerbates this because people who are green card holders who get drivers license are asked, you want register vote?  And their defense, some them say, well, heck, this government official asking want register vote, maybe Im allowed.  And they dont necessarily knowingly add their name the rolls. thats part the problem. mean, theres many other documented instances illegals actually casting vote resident aliens.  You can blog. think Ive posted couple stories about those conditions the last year.  
MR. FITTON:  John? 
MR. FUND:  First, dont think the biggest problem have the illegal alien voting, simply because the illegal aliens tend have habit not wanting associate with government officials and government controlled processes for obvious reasons.   
Having said that, doesnt take many close election swing result. have evidence Washington State governors race 2004, the Minnesota Senate race 2008.  The elections were close can probably say that any number categories people voting probably swung the election.  There were enough felons Minnesota you know could have swung the election.  There probably were enough illegal aliens Washington State.   
Heres the rub.  Government supposed more and more transparent.  The president ran transparency.  Were supposed have openness government, sunshine laws. Washington State, citizens groups similar what Catherine runs sued get access what you think would public record which the letter the people are sent when theyre asked serve juries.  You have answer the letter and answer some questions. know from Orange County, California  there was congressional race which whole bunch people voted whod done two things: they had said when they got their jury summons that they were not citizens but, Christian points out, they were registered vote, and they voted.  One those two things not true and means that theyve committed crime some kind.  Theyve either lied one area they lied the other area maybe both. Washington State, the citizens group sued simply say, want the list people who were sent jury notices and claimed they werent citizens.  Some those people voted. know that. didnt know how many.  They were denied and they lost court.  This outrageous.  These people were summoned for jury duty and have the right know whether not they claimed they werent citizens because they were trying avoid jury duty simply because they were  (inaudible). think that theres active effort the part some election administrators and some people charge the system make very difficult for figure out how much voter fraud there is. they always say theres voter fraud.  Well, open the books.  Lets see. 
MR. ADAMS:  Let add something really important that question could.  Number one, lot places its legal for non-citizens vote local elections. any you live Maryland, have fun, because non-citizens participate elections, local elections places like Montgomery County and Silver Spring.   
 Number two, Justice Department  Georgia citizenship verification.  Georgia passed law that required people registering vote prove they were eligible U.S. citizens vote.  And this Justice Department objected under Section Five the Voting Rights Act 2009 brought the complaints MALDEF and Elise Shore that MALDEF now  longer works for MALDEF.  She now works the Justice Department the voting section. thats number two. 
The third thing, the Justice Department filed brief case Texas called the City Irving, Irving, Texas.  The Justice Department, Eric Holders position that illegal aliens and non-citizens should counted for redistricting purposes, essentially giving political power non-citizens.  Counting them people who should counted and diluting the districts citizens.  And they filed this with the Fifth Circuit Court Appeals couple months ago, case called City Irving. 
MR. FITTON:  Catherine, what was your  whats your perspective?  Were the numbers, the documents that you examined close up, were you surprised the numbers was number that always going number accidental registrations more less, put charitable?  What struck you the data you found? 
MS. ENGELBRECHT: think would agree with the way John characterized it. did receive, certainly not through the research that weve done, nor from what can gather across the country, that thats the biggest issue that our system faces.  But think that points generalized weakness our system and that that our election processes are largely dependent upon honor. trust that our deputy voter registrars our counties were not going willfully, knowingly register illegal aliens. trust that their identifications will checked the polls.  Theres lot trust built into this, should be, right until the point when there undeniable systemic apparently subversion the process which then calls everything into question.   
So, yes, did see certainly enough.  But Christian got one favorite lines: how much fraud okay?  You know, how much fraud should  (inaudible)  because its problem now, much bigger problem just waiting happen. 
MR. FITTON:  Are there any other questions comments?  Chris (sp). had the impression that there are some who wish steal elections and others who wish void the electoral system.  Can you give couple examples few names the sort  particular expert either stealing election breaking election  (inaudible)  process? 
MR. FITTON: for the listeners the web, the question was, there are groups who want steal elections and then there are groups who want guess break elections and (abandon the system. 
MR. ADAMS:  Well, with question that involves title Johns book, Stealing Elections, think should defer John that one.    
MR. FUND:  Well, ACORN was little bit both.  ACORN was modeled after famous essay from the political social scientist Frances Fox Piven  (inaudible)  which the 1960s they advocated that people flood the welfare rolls order bankrupt the system and the ensuing chaos there would revolution.   
ACORNs model clearly was completely indifferent the accuracy integrity elections. the voter registration front think they wanted flood the system and create chaos. that chaos, would easier for others people they were allied with perhaps tilt the election through theft because the sloppier the voter registration rolls are, the easier conceal other problems once you get closer there for voting. there was method their madness.  They werent particularly good about it. mean, they were very sloppy actually. fact the internal joke ACORN was that the left-hand didnt know what their left-hand was doing.  (Laughter.)  But that was their intention was subvert the system and make easier the ensuing chaos for things happen.   
Remember, youre deciding steal election, you dont its landslide.  You need when its close. the closer you get election, you then decide worth the effort try organize  attempt steal election.  But youve already state after state salted the registration rolls with suspect spurious registrations, gives you the raw material with which you can more easily steal the election once you decided youre probably  (inaudible). 
MR. FITTON:  You know, had done investigation guess was Connecticut and  (inaudible)  out there they ended with nothing even know was grievous voter registration fraud. was decision the FBI and the Obama administration guess with the U.S. attorney there.   
But have followed and called the Connecticut voting official ask about what had happened.  And, you know, this true from other circumstances well that theyre there working their darndest make sure the rolls are correct just prior the election.  And then someone like Project Vote ACORN, the one and the same  Project Vote usually gives the money ACORN get the voting canvas whos out there, register voters, they come and dump thousands and thousands voter registrations   
MR. FUND: the last day. 
MR. FITTON: the last day.  And its mostly garbage.  And they get caught having figure whats going there.  And what happens? theyre trying get the roll legally, and youre trying make sure that your address that changed that you wont have problem voting, the voting officials isnt able get that.  And disrupts the system not only does allow the opportunity for fraud but make sure that people who want vote legally have more difficulty doing so. makes the job the officials  ensured that pay make sure the integrity our elections protected the local level.  Most these folks are  and Im sure you voted  you voted  (inaudible)  probably the same people there time after election, after election.  And most these folks the local level are honorable people but they get caught some these massive national efforts and their system destroyed result.    
MR. FUND:  And the more chaos there election day, the easier get  slip things past them because theyre constantly confronted with more and more inaccuracies and problems, makes harder catch people who are trying get the system and actually vote. 
MR. FITTON: you have 1,000 voters showing without ID, all sudden has one precinct asking for 1,000 provision ballots  our systems arent designed handle that sort mass.  And guarantee you whats happening now, and you the Project Votes website which still operation, theyre desperately trying register Obamas food stamp army  (inaudible)  rolls again 2012. dont think its ended, said opening remarks, with the scandals the last few years.  These groups are very active and theyre using this, the Voting Registration Act, the federal law register folks the rolls  (inaudible).  And there benefit there.  There are political outlets. 
MR. FUND:  And theres such rich history here which cant let pass.  Tom mentioned passing.  Barack Obama knows all about these issues.  What taught the University Chicago Law School was voting rights.  Hes all aware all these issues.  His entire career based these issues.   
His first major political job Chicago was head Project Vote, the ACORN affiliate Chicago. did such good job there moved become the top trainer Chicago for ACORN. did such good job there that became ACORNs lawyer, upholding the motor voter law that Christian referenced famous case  (inaudible)  that was the template for extending nationwide.  Barack Obama married the ACORN.   
And avoided all costs any association reporting with this  (inaudible)  organization 2008.  And now know the extent which tried  his campaign evade those ties.  ACORN affiliates were paid $900,000 the Democratic primaries Ohio and Pennsylvania for get out the vote efforts and motor registration efforts.  But their role was concealed Federal Election Commission reporting because was said that the groups were being paid for staging and lighting and other things they were  (inaudible)  rock band something.  Both was ACORN and its many affiliates. the Obama administration, they know what ACORNs been over the years and they willfully choose ignore it, look the other way.   
MR. FITTON:  Well, Christian and Catherine, were going have wrap up, but want give you chance make any final comments recommendations what can expect.  Catherine, please.  
MS. ENGELBRECHT: think that where are country right now, sort more than any time life, can say that citizens are aware and awake.  Our elections are place where citizens can make real different, where you can roll your sleeves and put your  (inaudible)  and get involved.   
And you look sometimes with great frustration about some the elements our government that feel like are beyond our control, working your elections place where you can have impact.  You can make difference.  You can support process which goes and trying support strong  (inaudible)  all the way  all the way the food chain.   
The counter that true well. allow corruption the most fundamental level our government, the polls, will rise unchecked the highest levels office.  And country find ourselves place where  you know, with wink and nod say, were  (inaudible)  fraud, worry about   (inaudible)  asked the question Im just not going ask the question, what have become?  Thats not who our forefathers were.  Thats not what this country based on.   
And its opportunity.  There are problems.  But step and getting involved solve them constructive ways for the benefit all people, irrespective party.  Its not about party.  Its about principle.  And True the Vote effort just that, effort engage citizens.  Please stay aware them because there are groups, and much wish werent true, there are groups who will look crack the system.   
MR. FITTON:  Thank you, Catherine.  Christian. 
MR. ADAMS: always love predictions because people who nobody reads can say, youve got wrong. Ill make two.  One, the Justice Department will reject the South Carolinas voter law shortly for reasons that are dumbfounding anyone who follows the South Carolina submitted their voter law justice opposed federal court Florida, Virginia, Louisiana, Texas and and have done the last year bypass Eric Holders proclivities.  Thats the first one will reject the South Carolina voter ID. 
And secondly, between now and the election, the DOJ will some (fete make appear that they care about the things were talking about here get everyone off their back but reality will just that, small effort.  Maybe theyll reply the letter that True the Vote sent them last October. thats all.  Thank you. 
MR. FITTON:  Thank you.  Now, John, when your edited new book coming  (inaudible)? 
MR. FUND:  Summer next year. 
 MR. FITTON:  Summer next year. the meantime, youre Fox and American Spectator and anywhere else youre writing.  Christian, when your book scheduled  (inaudible)? 
MR. ADAMS:  October 4th, Amazon, Barnes Noble  (inaudible).   
MR. FITTON:  You can pre-order, right? 
MR. ADAMS:  Yes.  Yes. 
MR. FITTON:  And, Catherine, True the Vote the Internet believe? 
MS. ENGELBRECHT:  Absolutely.  You can get involved right now assuming  (inaudible)  Judicial Watch Internet access, you can sign right now. the are working with states across the nation help mobilize and make sure that theres polling place left unmanned. can all this. 
MR. FITTON:  Well, you know, what strikes from this conversation, and Christian intimated, Judicial Watch obviously weve been investigating this for some time.  But well taking more direct action these issues.  But going activist groups and citizens take this on.  Well always provide opportunities for that.  You have rights citizens monitor the polls and hold your local  (inaudible).   
And whats wonderful about this topic this not happening Washington.  The elections happen your local level, and from dogcatcher up, and dont shy about figuring out whats and whats going there and whos and whos down and how works because this unique opportunity for individual citizens have dramatic impact and just one  (inaudible)  consistent person can make the bureaucrats  (inaudible)  making sure our elections are well run.  Pay attention. not shy. 
MR. FUND: would remiss didnt point out that have another author another book this topic the room, Matthew Vadum from the Capital Research Center.  And remind what the title your book is.   
MR. MATTHEW VADUM:  Subversion Inc: How Obamas ACORN Red Shirts Are Still Terrorizing and Ripping off American Taxpayers. 
MR. FUND:  Lets just say  Ill call Subversion, available popular book stores and  Its excellent  its the single best recounting the ongoing ACORN saga.  ACORN damaged but under new mismanagement.  And will not away. 
MR. FITTON:  Well, thank you everyone for being here.