401
1 place of birth.
2 Q Was there a typewriter in the
3 office?
4 A Yes, there was.
5 Q What kind of a typewriter?
6 A I do not remember.
7 Q Were there postage meters in the
8 office?
9 A I do not remember seeing any.
10 Q Fax machines?
11 A Oh, that's a little advanced. I
12 don't believe there was one at the beginning
13 but I do believe we had one ultimately, but I
14 don't remember as to when.
15 Q You don't know whether FBI material
16 was faxed to others on that fax machine, do
17 you?
18 A I do not remember. Do you mean an
19 investigation?
20 Q I meant what I said.
21 A I know that we did not fax
22 investigations to others.
402
1 Q You don't know what was done when
2 you weren't in the office?
3 A Again, I cannot speak for when I
4 was not present.
5 Q I take it that documents created on
6 the computer were sometimes stored on floppy
7 disks?
8 A Yes.
9 Q And you did that routinely, did you
10 not? You kept a backup in case the hard
11 drive crashed?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Where did you keep those disks?
14 A In the office.
15 Q Where in the office?
16 A In a desk or on top of the desk. I
17 don't remember specifically.
18 Q Which desk?
19 A My desk.
20 Q And was it out in the open, sitting
21 on top of your desk?
22 A When I was there if I was working
403
1 with it, yes.
2 Q You didn't lock it up each night,
3 did you?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Where did you lock it?
6 A I had a safe next to my -- next to
7 my desk that was a four-drawer cabinet safe.
8 Q Who had the combination to that
9 safe?
10 A I did and Craig did.
11 Q And when you left you left the
12 disks that you had created in that safe?
13 A I believe, to my memory, I did.
14 Q And what else was kept in that
15 safe?
16 A Other confidential information.
17 Q Such as?
18 MR. GILLIGAN: Don't reveal any
19 confidential information, please.
20 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
21 Q I'm just talking about the general
22 subject matter, not what was in it.
404
1 MR. GILLIGAN: That's fine.
2 THE WITNESS: Certain lists,
3 certain -- like, at one point we received the
4 upper level of -- like, the upper echelon
5 files that we kept in that safe away from
6 interns and such and various other things
7 that I can't remember specifically.
8 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
9 Q I don't think I understood upper
10 echelon. What do you mean?
11 A Assistants down to special
12 assistants to the president plus counsel to
13 the President plus, like, people who were
14 directly advisors to the President.
15 Q What else was kept in that safe?
16 A I think I've already said a list
17 and some other stuff I don't remember.
18 Q Were there other safes in the
19 office besides that one?
20 A No.
21 Q And only you and Craig had the
22 combination to that safe?
405
1 A Yes.
2 Q You are aware that when
3 Mr. Livingstone left The White House he took
4 those computer disks with him?
5 MR. COHEN: I object to that.
6 MR. KLAYMAN: You can't object to
7 anything.
8 MR. COHEN: Am I party or not,
9 Larry?
10 MR. KLAYMAN: You're not a party to
11 this deposition.
12 MR. GILLIGAN: I would point out
13 for the record that the court's August 12
14 scheduling and procedural order encourages
15 counsel for Mr. Mazur and Mr. Livingstone and
16 Mr. Marceca to attend these depositions.
17 MR. KLAYMAN: I agree and their
18 position has been they're not involved in any
19 way.
20 MR. COHEN: I object to that
21 question as assuming facts not in evidence
22 and are in fact --
406
1 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
2 Q You are aware that Livingstone took
3 those disks, aren't you?
4 MR. COHEN: Do you have any basis
5 for asking that question, Larry?
6 MR. GAFFNEY: Objection. Assumes
7 facts not in evidence.
8 MR. COHEN: That question is
9 objectionable and improper.
10 MR. KLAYMAN: You want to go under
11 oath? Maybe I can ask you. Do you have
12 them? Do you have those disks?
13 MR. COHEN: Go ahead. Answer the
14 question.
15 THE WITNESS: I was not there so I
16 do not know what happened after I left. I
17 was still in Atlanta.
18 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
19 Q You have heard that he took the
20 disks, correct?
21 A Not until you just said it.
22 Q Now, Craig Livingstone sometimes
407
1 worked later than you, did he not?
2 A Sometimes.
3 Q When did you usually leave the
4 office?
5 A It would vary, but normally around
6 6:00 or 7:00.
7 Q And when did Mr. Livingstone
8 usually leave?
9 A I would assume around 6:00 or 7:00.
10 MR. KLAYMAN: Incidentally, I want
11 this section certified where Mr. Cohen
12 interjects and gives testimony.
13 MR. COHEN: I will clarify,
14 Mr. Klayman, the basis of my objection. You
15 are asking questions that presuppose a fact
16 that you have no basis for believing to be
17 true and probably believe not to be true in a
18 deposition taken for the purposes of trial
19 testimony. It is improper to ask a question
20 at trial and in deposition where you do not
21 have a good faith basis for believing the
22 factual predicate of the question to be true.
408
1 That's the basis of my objection. You've
2 been asking questions like that all
3 afternoon.
4 MR. KLAYMAN: All you have to do is
5 register objection to form.
6 MR. COHEN: I'm explaining to you
7 why I'm objecting to that question.
8 MR. KLAYMAN: I understand why
9 you're objecting. You're injecting
10 testimony. If the question is not properly
11 phrased as to form, then you certainly have
12 an opportunity to raise that with the court
13 rather than telling the witness the answer.
14 MR. COHEN: You obviously need help
15 in forming questions.
16 MR. KLAYMAN: I don't think I need
17 your help, Mr. Cohen.
18 MR. COHEN: Well, you need
19 somebody's.
20 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify that. That
21 kind of remark's inappropriate.
22 THE WITNESS: I believe I already
409
1 stated I did not know.
2 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
3 Q Have you learned from any source
4 Mr. Livingstone took anything when he left
5 the office, anything?
6 A No.
7 Q Do you know where the disks are
8 today?
9 A No.
10 Q Have you ever asked anyone?
11 A No.
12 Q Was there any procedure in the
13 office to destroy computer disks?
14 A No.
15 Q Was there any procedure in the
16 office to destroy documents or things of any
17 sort?
18 A There were times when we did have
19 to destroy documents, but they were always
20 shredded, and they were classified
21 information that had been replaced with the
22 updated information.
410
1 Q Mr. Livingstone advised you to
2 shred things?
3 A Nancy advised me.
4 MR. COHEN: I object.
5 THE WITNESS: And it was not files.
6 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
7 Q What was it?
8 A It was a list.
9 Q A list of what?
10 A Of -- I don't know if I can say or
11 not. Hold on.
12 (Witness conferred with counsel)
13 THE WITNESS: It was a list of who
14 had been granted SCI clearance and what level
15 they had been granted and when it was
16 updated, the list was to be shredded.
17 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
18 Q Who had been granted SCI clearance?
19 MR. GILLIGAN: Objection. That's
20 asking for national security information.
21 MR. KLAYMAN: No, it is not. I'm
22 not asking for the information.
411
1 MR. GILLIGAN: That's classified
2 information.
3 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
4 Q Was the vice president on that
5 list?
6 MR. GILLIGAN: Objection. Don't
7 answer that.
8 MR. KLAYMAN: We already have an
9 exhibit to that effect.
10 MR. GILLIGAN: You lose me once
11 again, Mr. Klayman. Don't answer any
12 questions about whose name who was on a list
13 of people holding classified clearances.
14 Q Had Hillary Clinton requested SCI
15 materials?
16 MR. GAFFNEY: Objection to form.
17 THE WITNESS: I cannot give you
18 that information.
19 Q Had the President?
20 A I cannot give you that information.
21 Q Had individuals of the Democratic
22 National Committee?
412
1 A I cannot give you that information.
2 Q Had anyone else in The White House?
3 A I cannot give you that information.
4 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.
5 MR. GILLIGAN: May I ask for a
6 clarification before you go on? Are you
7 asking whose names were on the list or who
8 was asking for copies?
9 MR. KLAYMAN: Who was asking for
10 it.
11 MR. GILLIGAN: A moment.
12 (Witness conferred with counsel)
13 MR. KLAYMAN: Can we come to some
14 conclusion here? We only have ten minutes
15 left.
16 MR. GILLIGAN: We're trying to, if
17 we can, answer your question without
18 divulging national security information.
19 THE WITNESS: I don't want to go to
20 jail.
21 (Witness conferred with counsel)
22 MR. GILLIGAN: In response to your
413
1 last series of questions about people
2 requesting copies of this list she's going to
3 give you an answer.
4 THE WITNESS: I can only say that
5 no unauthorized people were given copies of
6 the list.
7 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
8 Q That's all you're going to say?
9 A That's all I can say.
10 Q Well, the First Lady would have
11 been authorized, correct, Mrs. Clinton?
12 MR. GAFFNEY: Objection to form.
13 THE WITNESS: I cannot say.
14 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
15 Q She was one of the people
16 authorized?
17 MR. GAFFNEY: Objection to form.
18 Assumes facts not in evidence.
19 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
20 Q She's among the class of people
21 that can get that information?
22 MR. GAFFNEY: Objection to form.
414
1 Please let me finish my objection,
2 Mr. Klayman.
3 MR. KLAYMAN: Make your objection,
4 if you want to say something on the record.
5 Say objection to form. That's all you need
6 to do.
7 MR. GAFFNEY: Mr. Klayman, you had
8 lengthy objections this morning, and I
9 believe that in most instances you were given
10 adequate time to get it on the record.
11 MR. KLAYMAN: Just don't put
12 testimony on the record.
13 MR. GAFFNEY: Object to the form.
14 I object to the form of question in that it
15 assumes facts not in evidence.
16 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
17 Q Now my question is is the First
18 Lady, Mrs. Clinton, among the people that
19 could get access not with regard to this
20 particular matter but just generally?
21 MR. GILLIGAN: I'm just going to
22 object. There's a national security issue
415
1 here and until we've had a chance to sort it
2 out I'm going to object and ask the witness
3 not to answer.
4 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it. Are you
5 saying, Mr. Gilligan, that I cannot find out
6 whether the First Lady has the clearance to
7 get national security information?
8 MR. GILLIGAN: Until I find out
9 that you can, I'm not going to allow that
10 information to be divulged because it is
11 common knowledge that in and of itself the
12 level of clearance an individual has may be
13 classified information, the type of
14 information they're allowed to receive itself
15 may be classified information, and I'm not
16 going to take a chance here on screwing up
17 and divulging classified information on the
18 record of this deposition, particularly when
19 it's completely irrelevant.
20 MR. KLAYMAN: Are you saying
21 someone's classification as to what
22 information they can receive is itself
416
1 classified?
2 MR. GILLIGAN: I believe that's
3 exactly what I just said.
4 MR. KLAYMAN: We've had that
5 testimony here today from a number of
6 different sources already. Maybe you already
7 screwed up.
8 MR. GILLIGAN: Well, I'm not going
9 to screw up again if I have.
10 MR. KLAYMAN: Let's certify it.
11 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
12 Q Are you aware of FBI file
13 information ever being recorded on a computer
14 system or any type of system?
15 A When you say "FBI file
16 information," what do you mean?
17 Q Any information contained in FBI
18 files being placed into a computer
19 recordation system?
20 A Where we would input the whole
21 background investigation? No.
22 Q No, even just a part of it. You
417
1 are aware of that, aren't you?
2 A I am aware that there might have
3 been instances, and I don't have specific
4 memories, where a point in an investigation
5 in a memo to Arnie Cole or someone of that
6 nature might have been performed but not in a
7 manner that would violate their privacy.
8 Q Well, you testified earlier that
9 there was a computer terminal in your office
10 that went to a database, correct?
11 A Yes, which what we input was the
12 date that we received their BI, and that was
13 all that was input in that terminal was the
14 date the BI was received, the date that they
15 went to their security briefing, the date
16 that their IRS check came back.
17 Q What's a BI?
18 A Background investigation.
19 Q And what was the end point of that
20 database? What database was that? Was there
21 a name for it?
22 A There was but I don't remember it.
418
1 Q Was the name WHODB?
2 A No, I don't remember it.
3 Q Big Brother?
4 A I don't remember the name.
5 Q You don't know one way or the
6 other?
7 A If Craig or Lisa or Nancy or
8 somebody or you came up with the right name,
9 I might recognize it, but as of now none of
10 the names you have specified trigger my
11 memory as to what the name of that database
12 is.
13 Q You don't know whether when
14 Mr. Livingstone took files he didn't take
15 them to some office and have information from
16 those FBI files put on a database, do you?
17 A When he left the office I did not
18 follow him to see what he did with those
19 files, so, no, I do not know.
20 Q Did you ever hear of a computer
21 database in The White House called Big
22 Brother?
419
1 A No.
2 Q WHODB?
3 A Not to my memory.
4 Q Did you ever hear of a database
5 called Bunny?
6 A No.
7 Q Had you ever met a Marsha Scott?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Who was Marsha Scott?
10 A At the time that I met her?
11 Q (Nodding)
12 A She was director of, I believe it
13 was, correspondence for the president.
14 Q Craig Livingstone sometimes visited
15 Marsha Scott, correct?
16 A In the course of his business, yes,
17 because the correspondence was such that they
18 had a lot of people coming in to read the
19 mail.
20 Q And you are aware that she created
21 a database, Ms. Scott?
22 A No, I'm not.
420
1 Q You don't know whether Craig
2 Livingstone visited Marsha Scott with FBI
3 files, do you?
4 A I do not.
5 Q You don't know one way or the
6 other?
7 A I do not.
8 MR. GILLIGAN: Are you at a point
9 where we can --
10 MR. KLAYMAN: I have a few more
11 minutes.
12 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
13 Q Did you ever meet an Alexis Herman?
14 A I never met her specifically but I
15 knew who she was.
16 Q She did have some contact with your
17 office, did she not?
18 A Her specifically?
19 Q Yes.
20 A I do not remember her specifically
21 having actual contact with our office.
22 Q You're aware that Craig Livingstone
421
1 did know her when he was at The White House?
2 A I am not aware that he did know
3 her. I am aware that he knew who she was.
4 Q Were you aware that she was
5 inviting people to attend White House
6 coffees?
7 A I was aware that her function at
8 The White House was at public liaison and at
9 times there were events where she had a list
10 of people who she would invite to a bill
11 signing, to a photo op, to general open
12 events like that.
13 Q And you are aware that her office,
14 the office of public liaison, sometimes asked
15 for security checks on people invited to
16 those coffees?
17 A I am not aware of that.
18 Q So, as far as you know, they never
19 asked for a security check for people invited
20 to those coffees?
21 MR. GILLIGAN: Object to the form.
22 THE WITNESS: As far as I'm aware,
422
1 they had to submit a list of those people to
2 be subjected to the same WAVES check that
3 would be for any visitor coming -- any
4 visitor coming into The White House had to
5 have their name run through the criminal
6 computer that Secret Service had access to
7 and all of those individuals had to have that
8 exact same type of check run.
9 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
10 Q Did you ever do a security check on
11 any individuals that came to The White House
12 who had contributed money to the Clinton/Gore
13 campaign or Democratic party?
14 A I do not know.
15 Q You don't really know who the
16 people were?
17 A I do not know who those individuals
18 would have been.
19 Q Did Craig Livingstone keep a
20 listing of who individuals were?
21 A Which individuals are you talking
22 about?
423
1 Q Did he keep a business card book at
2 all?
3 A He did keep a business card file,
4 yes.
5 Q Did you keep that for him?
6 A No, Craig kept it.
7 Q Do you know where that is today?
8 A No, I do not.
9 Q I take it he kept a desk calendar?
10 A If I remember correctly, but it's
11 sort of vague. I think it might have been
12 one of those big blotter things.
13 Q And you kept that for him?
14 A As I said, it was a big blotter
15 thing that he kept, so it was on his desk.
16 It wasn't on mine.
17 Q Did you keep any kind of calendar
18 for him?
19 A No.
20 Q Were there telephone message slips
21 kept in the office when someone called in?
22 A Yes.
424
1 Q And the backups, did they have
2 carbon backups to them?
3 A I do not remember. I'm not sure if
4 they were those little pink things that you
5 requisition through the office of OA. It was
6 requisitioned through the office of OA and if
7 they had backups they did and I don't know
8 where they are; if not, they might have just
9 been the little pink things.
10 Q But the backup carbons were stored
11 in the office?
12 A If the memos -- the little message
13 pads that we had had backups, I don't know
14 where they are.
15 Q But you did keep them? You don't
16 know where they are today but you did keep
17 them?
18 MR. GAFFNEY: Objection. Assumes
19 facts not in evidence.
20 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
21 Q At the time.
22 MR. GILLIGAN: Objection. Asked
425
1 and answered. Go ahead.
2 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
3 Q You can respond.
4 A I do not remember.
5 Q Were schedules kept on the
6 computers at all?
7 MR. GILLIGAN: Object to the
8 vagueness of the question.
9 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
10 Q In other words, rather than keeping
11 a book, were people's schedules kept on a
12 computer through a software program?
13 A Schedules of what?
14 Q People's appointments in the
15 office?
16 A No.
17 Q Did Craig Livingstone use any kind
18 of a cassette recorder to record thoughts
19 from time to time?
20 A Not that I am aware of.
21 MR. KLAYMAN: Okay. We can break
22 at this point. It's 5:30.
426
1 MR. GILLIGAN: I have one question
2 for the witness just so we can avoid a
3 misunderstanding during interim.
4 FURTHER EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR
5 DEFENDANTS
6 BY MR. GILLIGAN:
7 Q I refer to Deposition Exhibit
8 No. 6, Ms. Anderson. I just want to be clear
9 about one thing to make sure I understand.
10 Prior to today, have you ever seen this
11 document before?
12 A I've never seen the fact sheet, but
13 I have seen my deposition.
14 MR. GILLIGAN: Thank you very much.
15 No further questions at this time.
16 MR. KLAYMAN: We'll leave the
17 deposition open.
18 MR. GILLIGAN: Do you want to read
19 and sign? The idea is you get a copy of the
20 transcript. You read it. If you detect any
21 transcription errors you can correct those.
22 THE WITNESS: Okay.
427
1 MR. KLAYMAN: That's fine, so I
2 understand the deposition's open so your time
3 would not begin to run yet but she can still
4 do that.
5 MR. GILLIGAN: We understand that
6 to be your position, by the way, that the
7 deposition is still open.
8 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off video
9 record at 5:30.
10 (Whereupon, at 5:30 p.m., the
11 deposition of MARI ANDERSON was
12 adjourned.)
13 * * * * *
Goto
of this deposition