401
1 Q A feeling that the Administration
2 takes care of its own?
3 A No, that's not the issue at all.
4 As I've made it very clear to you, I've not
5 discussed this case with people in the White
6 House and I did not discuss this case with
7 anybody in the Pentagon other than the people
8 I've noted, Doc Cooke and Cliff Bernath,
9 prior to the release of the information. No
10 one has given me any assurances about this
11 case before, during or after.
12 Q What do you mean that, "This, too,
13 shall pass"? What else has passed?
14 A This is a biblical term that just
15 refers to -- you know what it means as well
16 as I do.
17 Q Do you mean that the Clinton
18 Administration has basically skated from
19 every other scandal, so this one will pass,
20 as well?
21 MS. SHAPIRO: Objection.
22 THE WITNESS: I did not mean that
402
1 at all.
2 MR. KLAYMAN: Is it your position
3 that your conduct with regard to the release
4 of Linda Tripp's Privacy Act information was
5 not inappropriate?
6 MS. WEISMANN: I object to the
7 question. Mr. Bacon's conduct is not at
8 issue, and I'm going to direct him not to
9 answer.
10 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify. Is it your
11 position that you did not violate the law in
12 terms of your participation with regard to
13 the release of Linda Tripp's information?
14 MR. MURPHY: Objection. He's not a
15 lawyer.
16 MS. WEISMANN: I object, as well.
17 Whether or not Mr. Bacon has violated the law
18 is not at issue here.
19 MR. KLAYMAN: Do you take issue
20 with what Secretary Cohen said on Fox Morning
21 News?
22 MS. SHAPIRO: I'll object that it's
403
1 been asked and answered.
2 MR. MURPHY: Only a half dozen
3 times.
4 MR. KLAYMAN: Is it your view that
5 Bernath's conduct was inappropriate in the
6 release of Linda Tripp's Privacy Act
7 information?
8 MR. MURPHY: I think that Mr. Bacon
9 has answered this question, if not ad
10 nauseum, as Ms. Weismann would say, at least
11 ad infinitum.
12 MR. KLAYMAN: Please respond.
13 MR. MURPHY: Go ahead. Answer it
14 again.
15 THE WITNESS: I think that's what
16 the I.G. Will determine.
17 MR. KLAYMAN: On what basis?
18 THE WITNESS: That's up to the I.G.
19 to determine.
20 MR. KLAYMAN: Do you have any
21 factual or legal basis for that prediction?
22 MR. MURPHY: That they'll make the
404
1 determination?
2 MR. KLAYMAN: That that will be the
3 finding of the I.G. Inspector General.
4 MR. MURPHY: I don't think he
5 predicted what the finding would be.
6 THE WITNESS: I didn't predict it.
7 I said they will determine whether or not
8 it's inappropriate.
9 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
10 Q Is it your view that what happened
11 was inappropriate?
12 A I told you that in retrospect, if
13 we had it to do over again we would have done
14 it differently. We would have checked with
15 lawyers or checked with Ms. Tripp's attorney.
16 Q Is it your view of what happened
17 with regard to Ms. Tripp and the release of
18 her information was illegal?
19 MS. WEISMANN: Again, I object.
20 He's not a lawyer. This is not relevant to
21 your inquiry, and I'm going to instruct him
22 not to answer.
405
1 MR. KLAYMAN: He can respond.
2 MS. WEISMANN: No, he cannot. I've
3 just instructed him not to answer.
4 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.
5 MR. MURPHY: If counsel for the
6 Defense Department tells him not to answer,
7 he's not to answer.
8 MR. KLAYMAN: I'm not asking him
9 for the question on the basis of whether he's
10 a lawyer or not but his understanding as to
11 whether the conduct was legal or not.
12 MS. WEISMANN: The legality of that
13 conduct is not an issue in your lawsuit.
14 MR. KLAYMAN: Yes, it is.
15 MS. WEISMANN: No, it is not, and
16 I'm going to direct him not to answer.
17 MR. MURPHY: You're supposed to say
18 "certify it" now.
19 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it. Thank
20 you. Has anyone told you that the release of
21 the Tripp information was illegal?
22 THE WITNESS: No.
406
1 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
2 Q Has anyone told you that the
3 release of the Tripp information was
4 inappropriate?
5 A Well, I have seen Secretary Cohen's
6 statement on it.
7 Q Did he ever tell that to you
8 directly?
9 A He has not told it to me directly.
10 Q Do you know whether he has ever
11 told it to Mr. Bernath directly?
12 A I do not know that.
13 Q Has Secretary Cohen ever
14 reprimanded you for what happened?
15 A He has not.
16 Q Has Secretary Cohen ever
17 reprimanded Mr. Bernath for what happened?
18 A I do not know.
19 Q Has Secretary Cohen even ever
20 criticized you for what happened?
21 A I think Secretary Cohen is waiting
22 for the I.G. report to be completed and then
407
1 presumably he'll make whatever action he
2 feels is appropriate.
3 Q Did he tell you he was waiting for
4 the I.G. Report to be completed?
5 A He certainly knows that the I.G.
6 report is underway.
7 Q Did he tell you that?
8 A Did he tell me that he knows it's
9 underway? Yes.
10 Q Did he tell you he was waiting for
11 the I.G. Report?
12 A He has not said that to me
13 specifically, no.
14 MR. KLAYMAN: Our time for the 6
15 hours is concluded at this point. We're
16 going to leave the deposition open.
17 MS. WEISMANN: We don't agree to
18 leaving it open. We believe that Mr. Bacon
19 has fully satisfied his obligations. If you
20 want to reopen it, you will have to get leave
21 of the Court.
22 MR. MURPHY: I join in that,
408
1 Mr. Klayman. If you get an order from the
2 judge that Mr. Bacon has to come back, then
3 obviously he'll come back. But barring that,
4 I think you've had full and fair, maybe
5 unfair, opportunity to take his testimony.
6 MR. KLAYMAN: Well, I take issue
7 with your continuing insults, Mr. Murphy.
8 Your conduct here has been inappropriate.
9 MR. MURPHY: Coming from you,
10 Mr. Klayman, I don't take that too seriously.
11 (Whereupon, at 5:37 p.m., the
12 deposition of KENNETH BACON was
13 adjourned.)
14 * * * * *