)   Civil No. 96-2123/97-1288 (RCL)








et al., :

4 :

Plaintiffs :

5 :

v. : Civil No. 96-2123 (RCL)

6 :




8 Defendants. :



10 Washington, D.C.

11 Tuesday, August 18, 1998

12 deposition of


14 a witness, called for examination by counsel

15 for Plaintiffs, pursuant to notice and

16 agreement of counsel, beginning at

17 approximately 9:39 a.m., at the offices of

18 Judicial Watch, Inc., 501 School Street S.W.,

19 Washington, D.C., before Joan V. Cain, notary

20 public in and for the District of Columbia,

21 when were present on behalf on the respective

22 parties:



2 On behalf of Plaintiffs:


Judicial Watch, Inc.

4 501 School Street, S.W., Suite 725

Washington, D.C. 20024

5 (202) 646-5172

6 On behalf of the Executive Office of the

President (EOP) and the Federal Bureau

7 of Investigations (FBI):



9 Federal Programs Branch

Civil Division

10 United States Department of Justice

901 E Street N.W., 9th Floor

11 Washington, D.C. 20004

(202) 514-5302



13 Office of the General Counsel

Federal Bureau of Investigation

14 935 Pennsylvania Avenue N.W.

Washington, D.C. 20535

15 (202) 324-9655

16 On behalf of Defendant Hillary Rodham Clinton:


Williams & Connolly

18 725 Twelfth Street, N.W.

Washington, D.C. 20005

19 (202) 434-5175






2 On behalf of The White House:


The White House

4 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.

Washington, D.C. 20502

5 (202) 456-5076

6 On behalf of Deponent:



8 O'Melveny & Myers, L.L.P.

555 13th Street N.W.

9 Washington, D.C. 20004-1109

(202) 383-5359







Counsel for Plaintiffs 5




No. 1 - Subpoena, Attachments 39



* * * * *







1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning

3 This is the video deposition of Larry Potts,

4 taken by the counsel for the Plaintiffs in

5 the matter of Cara Leslie Alexander v.

6 Federal Bureau of Investigation, et al. in

7 the U.S. District Court for the District of

8 Columbia, Case No. 96-2123, held in the

9 offices of Judicial Watch, 501 School Street,

10 Southwest, Washington, D.C., on this date,

11 August 18, 1998, and at the time indicated on

12 the video screen, which is 9:39 a.m.

13 My name is a Sylvanus Holley; I'm

14 the videographer. The court reporter today

15 is Joan Cain from the firm of Beta Reporting.

16 Will counsel now introduce

17 themselves?

18 MR. KLAYMAN: Larry Klayman,

19 general counsel, Chairman of Judicial Watch.

20 MR. FITTON: Tom Fitton, President,

21 Judicial Watch.

22 MR. RAPHAELSON: Ira Raphaelson and


1 Elizabeth Delaney of O'Melveny & Myers,

2 L.L.P., on behalf of the nonparty witness,

3 Mr. Potts.

4 MS. SHAPIRO: Elizabeth Shapiro,

5 Department of Justice, on behalf of the FBI

6 and EOP.

7 MR. PIFER: John Pifer from FBI.

8 MS. PAXTON: Sally Paxton with The

9 White House.

10 MR. GAFFNEY: Paul Gaffney,

11 Williams & Connolly, on behalf of the First

12 Lady.

13 MS. FAYNGOLD: Julia Fayngold,

14 Department of Justice, on behalf of the FBI

15 and EOP.

16 Whereupon,


18 was called as a witness and, having been

19 first duly sworn, was examined and testified

20 as follows:




1 Q Please state your name.

2 A Larry Potts.

3 Q Mr. Potts, when were you born?

4 A In 1947, August 21.

5 Q And where did you attend high

6 school?

7 A At Loudoun Valley High School.

8 Q And where is that?

9 A In Loudoun County, Virginia.

10 Q And what year did you graduate?

11 A 1965.

12 Q Did you go on to college or

13 university?

14 A I did.

15 Q And where did you attend?

16 A University of Richmond.

17 Q And what did you major in during

18 university?

19 A Psychology.

20 Q And when did you graduate?

21 A 1969.

22 Q What, if anything, did you do


1 professionally in 1969, when you graduated?

2 A Entered the United States Army.

3 Q And how long did you stay in the

4 Army?

5 A A little over two years.

6 Q And what was your rank in the Army?

7 A When I left the service, I was

8 first lieutenant.

9 Q And what type of discharge did you

10 receive?

11 A Honorable.

12 Q And what year was that?

13 A 1972.

14 Q And what happened after that,

15 professionally speaking?

16 A I became a juvenile probation

17 officer.

18 Q Where did you become a juvenile

19 probation officer?

20 A In Loudoun County, Virginia.

21 Q What were your duties and

22 responsibilities as a juvenile probation


1 officer?

2 A Worked for the Loudoun County

3 juvenile court and prepared probation reports

4 for juveniles who were coming before the

5 court and then supervised their probation

6 when the judge ordered that they be placed on

7 probation.

8 Q How long did you stay in that

9 position?

10 A A little over two years.

11 Q What was the reason that you left?

12 A To enter the FBI.

13 Q And what year did you enter the

14 FBI?

15 A 1974.

16 Q Under what capacity did you enter

17 the FBI?

18 A As a special agent.

19 Q Was there a requirement of legal

20 training at that time?

21 A No, sir.

22 Q And during the time that you were


1 with the FBI could you please describe for us

2 your various positions and when they changed,

3 if at all?

4 A Special agent and after training

5 school was assigned to Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh

6 office. Then was transferred to the Johns-

7 town, Pennsylvania, resident agency, again as

8 a special agent.

9 Transferred to FBI headquarters as

10 a supervisor in 1978, then transferred in

11 1982, I believe, to Denver as a field

12 supervisor. I'm sorry. That might have been

13 '82 or '83, and then after two years in

14 Denver I was transferred back to FBI

15 headquarters as the unit chief of the public

16 corruption unit.

17 I was there only a year and was

18 transferred in 1986 to Boston, where I was

19 the assistant special agent in charge. In

20 1988 I was transferred back to Washington,

21 D.C., as the chief of the white collar crime

22 section.


1 In 1989, the end of 1989, I was

2 designated the inspector in charge of the

3 band pack investigation, which was the

4 investigation of the murder of judge --

5 federal Judge Robert Vance and the civil

6 rights worker Robbie Robinson.

7 Then in 1991 I was designated as

8 deputy assistant director of the Criminal

9 Investigative Division, 1992 as assistant

10 director of the Criminal Investigative

11 Division, in January of 1995, acting deputy

12 director, in June of 1995 I was transferred

13 to Quantico training academy, and then in

14 August of 1995 I was placed on administrative

15 leave and stayed on administrative leave

16 until my retirement in August of 1997.

17 Q What was the reason you were placed

18 on administrative leave?

19 MR. RAPHAELSON: I'm going to

20 object as to that question as it goes into

21 the Ruby Ridge area which has been foreclosed

22 for this deposition.


1 MR. KLAYMAN: I'm not asking about

2 Ruby Ridge if there's another reason for

3 that. It's that the only reason?

4 MR. RAPHAELSON: I'm going to

5 instruct him not to answer.

6 MR. KLAYMAN: I have no way of

7 knowing what the response would be. Is that

8 what you're stipulating?

9 MR. RAPHAELSON: I'm stipulating

10 that that that's the only reason.


12 Q Have you ever been convicted of a

13 crime?

14 A No, sir.

15 Q Not even a traffic violation?

16 A No, sir.

17 Q During the time that you were at

18 the FBI, notwithstanding Ruby Ridge, not

19 asking questions about Ruby Ridge, were you

20 disciplined for anything?

21 A Would you repeat that again,

22 please?


1 Q I'm not asking about Ruby Ridge,

2 but during the time you were at the FBI, were

3 you disciplined for anything, taking that out

4 of the equation?

5 A Excluding Ruby Ridge?

6 Q Yes.

7 A No, sir.

8 Q During the time that you were at

9 the FBI, did you ever have an opportunity to

10 participate in conducting background security

11 checks on individuals either directly or

12 indirectly?

13 A Yes, sir.

14 Q When did the first such occurrence

15 happen?

16 A I think that the only time that I

17 would have conducted background checks would

18 have been probably -- actually conducted them

19 myself as a special agent would have been

20 during the time that I was assigned to the

21 Johnstown RA, which would have been from '75

22 through '77, 1975 through 1977.


1 Q In the course of doing background

2 checks was an FBI file prepared on

3 individuals being investigated?

4 MR. RAPHAELSON: Mr. Klayman, I'm

5 going to object to the form of the question.

6 He's indicated an almost 24-year career --

7 MR. KLAYMAN: Please don't give

8 testimony, Mr. Raphaelson.

9 MR. RAPHAELSON: I'm not giving

10 testimony.

11 MR. KLAYMAN: This is a common

12 technique which is used in these depositions.

13 If you want to object, give me your

14 objection. Don't provide testimony.

15 MR. RAPHAELSON: Mr. Klayman, I'm

16 not providing testimony. The witness has

17 indicated he's had a 24-year career. If you

18 want to specify a time, specify a time;

19 otherwise, I have an objection.

20 MR. KLAYMAN: He just testified to

21 the time when he worked doing background

22 security checks.


1 MR. RAPHAELSON: He did. Your

2 question didn't.


4 Q When you were doing those

5 background security checks, what year was

6 that?

7 A I believe it was '75 through '77.

8 Q And in the course of doing the

9 background security checks, what types of

10 things did you do with regard to people that

11 were being investigated?

12 MS. SHAPIRO: I'm going to just

13 give a cautionary instruction. The witness

14 can talk generally but not specifically about

15 law enforcement techniques.


17 Q What kind of information

18 generically was gathered?

19 A It was generally background

20 information, which would -- normally these

21 background investigations would be a result

22 of someone who was an applicant or going to


1 be appointed to a position and they would

2 have to fill out a rather extensive form and

3 a lot of work was simply verifying the

4 information which they had furnished us on

5 the form.

6 Q And what was done to verify that

7 information?

8 A You would do record checks,

9 interviews. That's primarily it.

10 Q What are record checks?

11 A Check criminal records, civil

12 records.

13 Q Anything else?

14 A Educational records.

15 Q And you say interviews were done.

16 What do you mean by interviews?

17 A You'd go out and talk to people and

18 ask them questions about the applicant.

19 Q And what types of forms were filled

20 in when you talked to those people? Was

21 there a generic form that's used?

22 A Generally, background


1 investigations at that time were recorded on

2 -- primarily on insert forms or else were put

3 directly on to a teletype, which would have

4 been sent to FBI headquarters.

5 Q Is there a number to the type of

6 form which is used? Is it designated any

7 particular way?

8 A I don't know of a number for an

9 insert and the teletype. I don't know what

10 the number is for teletype.

11 Q Now, I take it an agent does the

12 interviews?

13 A Right.

14 Q And does he record the information

15 he gets on the interviews on paper? Is that

16 what you're saying?

17 A Generally either on an insert or on

18 a teletype, yes.

19 Q Now, the subject of the

20 investigation ordinarily doesn't get a chance

21 to see what's being put on that paper,

22 correct?


1 A That's correct.

2 Q And a lot of the information which

3 is obtained is information which never really

4 is followed up on, correct? I'm just talking

5 generally.

6 A Some of it is followed up on, and

7 there would probably be some that is not.

8 Q Some is unverified information

9 which is recorded?

10 MS. SHAPIRO: Objection, form.


12 Q You can respond.

13 A I think that some of -- there is

14 unverified information for sure in some of

15 the backgrounds.

16 Q Subjects are not given an

17 opportunity, generally speaking, to rebut it,

18 correct?

19 A No, they're not, not always. There

20 would be -- certainly there would be times

21 when you would go back to the applicant.

22 There may be an interview of the applicant.


1 Especially if there's any highly negative

2 information, there could be a follow-up

3 interview with the applicant.

4 Q But it's not required?

5 MS. SHAPIRO: Objection. Form.

6 THE WITNESS: I don't know that

7 it's not required. It depends on the nature

8 of the information, and it depends on the

9 client or the entity that you're doing the

10 background investigation for.


12 Q But there have been occasions, to

13 the best of your knowledge, when negative

14 information has not been brought to the

15 attention of the subject?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Is there any other type of

18 information gathered in a background security

19 check that you haven't mentioned?

20 MS. SHAPIRO: Objection. Form.

21 THE WITNESS: Not that I can think

22 of, no.


1 Q And is the information which you've

2 just described kept in a file commonly known

3 as an FBI file?

4 MR. RAPHAELSON: Mr. Klayman, I'm

5 going to object again to the form of the

6 question unless you're limiting it to time

7 frame Mr. Potts has identified.


9 Q During the time that you were at

10 the FBI, did the procedure ever change that

11 you know of in conducting background security

12 checks?

13 A I'm sure that over a period of 24

14 years there were certain changes made. I

15 can't recall what they would have been, but

16 I'm sure that there would have been changes.

17 Q Not significant changes?

18 A Well, there might have been

19 significant changes in terms of what

20 questions were asked and what issues were to

21 be addressed.

22 Q But you can't remember any?


1 MS. SHAPIRO: Objection. Mis-

2 characterizes.

3 THE WITNESS: I think at some point

4 the use of drugs became an issue.


6 Q The information which is gathered

7 in terms of these security checks is put in a

8 file?

9 A That's correct.

10 Q And is there a particular name for

11 that file, generically speaking?

12 A I don't --

13 Q FBI file, is that one way you can

14 refer to it?

15 A I guess you could, yes.

16 Q During the time that you worked at

17 the FBI, did you ever get to know Howard

18 Shapiro?

19 A Yes, sir.

20 Q Did you know him before he came to

21 work at the FBI?

22 A Yes, sir.


1 Q How did you get to meet

2 Mr. Shapiro?

3 A I met Mr. Shapiro in 1990, when he

4 was a member of the United States Attorney's

5 Office in the Southern District of New York.

6 Q And what were the circumstances of

7 meeting him, other than specifically?

8 A He was assigned to assist in the

9 prosecution of an investigation that I was

10 handling.

11 Q Did you work with him on that

12 investigation?

13 A Yes, sir.

14 Q Aside from that investigation, did

15 you work with him in any capacity after that

16 investigation?

17 A Subsequently, he became general

18 counsel for the FBI, and I worked with him in

19 that capacity?

20 MR. RAPHAELSON: If we can have a

21 minute, Mr. Klayman? If we can have one

22 minute?


1 (Witness conferred with counsel)

2 THE WITNESS: I worked with

3 Mr. Shapiro when he was a member of the

4 United States Attorney's Office on both the

5 investigation and prosecution of that case.


7 Q Did there come a point in time when

8 you were with the FBI that you heard of a

9 controversy by the name of Travelgate?

10 A Yes, sir.

11 Q When was that?

12 A I cannot recall the time frame. It

13 was when -- it was during the time frame that

14 I was the assistant director of the Criminal

15 Investigative Division.

16 Q And how did that controversy come

17 to your attention?

18 MS. SHAPIRO: Object to the

19 relevancy.


21 Q You can respond.

22 A There's been an objection.


1 Q It's just a relevancy objection.

2 You still have to respond.

3 MS. SHAPIRO: Go ahead and answer.

4 MR. RAPHAELSON: You can answer.

5 THE WITNESS: I'm having a little

6 difficult time. I said that I became aware

7 of the controversy. The FBI was involved in

8 an investigation of the Travel Office, and

9 sometime subsequent to that I know that there

10 was an inquiry involving the Travel Office

11 issue, but I -- I'm not sure how I would have

12 -- I'm not sure how I first learned of that.

13 It may well have been because I was contacted

14 to be interviewed as a part of the, you know,

15 inquiry process.


17 Q Who contacted you to be inter-

18 viewed?

19 A I was interviewed by the FBI, some

20 FBI agents, I think, as well as Department of

21 Justice attorneys who were conducting an

22 inquiry.


1 Q Why, to the best of your knowledge,

2 were you contacted to be interviewed?

3 MS. SHAPIRO: I object and instruct

4 him not to answer as to what he learned from

5 the FBI or the Department of Justice as to

6 why he was being interviewed.

7 MR. KLAYMAN: Travelgate is part of

8 Filegate. That's how Filegate arose,

9 Ms. Shapiro.

10 MS. SHAPIRO: That's not the basis

11 of my objection.

12 MR. KLAYMAN: And we're entitled to

13 learn, particularly since this investigation,

14 at least in terms of the FBI is concluded,

15 what happened.

16 MS. SHAPIRO: Not entitled to learn

17 about law enforcement techniques of the

18 Bureau and that's the basis of my objection.

19 MR. KLAYMAN: That's not what I

20 asked for. Certify it. We'll move the court

21 accordingly for sanctions.

22 MR. RAPHAELSON: Mr. Klayman, I'm


1 in the unenviable position of having to

2 instruct my client to the extent that he

3 receives an instruction from the Justice

4 Department relating to testimony relating to

5 his former official capacity where if there

6 is an objection by the government he's going

7 to have to honor it or face potential

8 criminal prosecution. I'm not going to allow

9 him to face potential criminal prosecution,

10 and so he's going to honor their objection

11 and instruction.

12 MR. KLAYMAN: Well, I haven't heard

13 a threat of criminal prosecution. If there

14 is such a threat, I think maybe we ought to

15 refer this to another entity because you're

16 not supposed to be threatening criminal

17 prosecution in a civil proceeding.

18 MR. RAPHAELSON: There is no threat

19 of criminal prosecution which has been

20 articulated to me or to my client. The law

21 governing the conduct of former government

22 officials is they are only authorized to


1 testify to the extent the Justice Department

2 authorizes them to testify as to their formal

3 official capacity. He has not been

4 authorized to answer that question.


6 Q Have you been threatened with

7 criminal prosecution, Mr. Potts, by any

8 entity in the Clinton Administration?

9 A No, sir.

10 MR. KLAYMAN: Will you let him

11 answer now?

12 MR. RAPHAELSON: No, sir.

13 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.


15 Q What was your understanding as to

16 why you were being interviewed in the

17 Travelgate matter? What was your

18 involvement, if any, in Travelgate?

19 MS. SHAPIRO: Objection, compound.

20 He can answer the latter question.

21 THE WITNESS: My involvement in

22 Travelgate was that I was -- or the Travel


1 Office investigation was that I was the

2 assistant director of the Criminal

3 Investigative Division, and we were called

4 upon to conduct an investigation, and I

5 believe it was in -- I believe it was 1993

6 that we were called upon to conduct an

7 investigation of the Travel Office.


9 Q Who called upon you to conduct that

10 investigation?

11 A My recollection is that The White

12 House had contacted an individual in the

13 Criminal Investigative Division and had told

14 them that they had a possible criminal matter

15 that they would like for the FBI to look

16 into.

17 Q Who in The White House contacted an

18 individual or individuals in the Criminal

19 Investigative Division of the FBI?

20 A I believe it was Mr. Kennedy.

21 Q William Kennedy?

22 A Yes, sir.


1 Q How did you learn of such contacts?

2 A I was told by one of the deputy

3 assistant directors who worked for me in the

4 criminal division that there had been such a

5 contact.

6 Q Who was that? Who told you?

7 A I believe it was Danny Colson.

8 Q And what did Mr. Colson tell you

9 about that contact, specifically?

10 A I'm not sure that -- how specific I

11 can be, but I will do the best I can. I

12 remember he told me that there had been an

13 indication that there was possible fraud in

14 the Travel Office, that there had been a

15 phone call indicating there was possible

16 violation of law.

17 They had asked for an FBI

18 investigation, that the initial facts

19 indicated that it was possibly a white collar

20 crime matter, and as a result it had been

21 transferred to -- over to another section in

22 the criminal division that handles white


1 collar crime matters.

2 Q Was anything else said?

3 A I think he told me that it was

4 Mr. Kennedy who had called from The White

5 House, that he had contacted Jim Burke.

6 Q Who's Jim Burke?

7 A Jim Burke was special agent of the

8 FBI, a supervisory special agent of the FBI,

9 who was assigned to the Criminal

10 Investigative Division and who was

11 responsible for handling background

12 investigation.

13 Q Was this contact done orally or in

14 writing or both?

15 A My understanding, it was

16 telephonically.

17 Q Was there anything committed to

18 writing?

19 A Sir, I don't know.

20 Q What, if anything, happened after

21 you learned that there was a contact from the

22 White House?


1 A I was advised that one or more

2 agents had been sent over to The White House

3 to determine what the facts were and to

4 determine whether or not there should be an

5 investigation.

6 Q Which agents were sent over to The

7 White House?

8 A I don't know --

9 MS. SHAPIRO: Objection. Before

10 you answer, I'd just like to confer with

11 counsel a moment, please.

12 You can go ahead and answer the

13 question.

14 THE WITNESS: I'm not sure but I

15 believe Pat Forran was one of the agents.


17 Q Did you play any role in sending

18 those agents over to The White House?

19 A No, sir.

20 Q Who ordered them over to The White

21 House?

22 A Initially, I'm not sure whether --


1 it was one of the deputy assistant directors,

2 I believe.

3 Q Was FBI director Louis Freeh made

4 aware of this contact by The White House?

5 A I'm not sure that director Freeh

6 was director at that time.

7 Q Well, was Mr. Sessions made aware

8 of it?

9 A I believe that there was a -- I

10 believe it was reported up the chain of

11 command.

12 Q Do you know that for a fact?

13 A Don't know it for a fact.

14 Q Did there come a point in time when

15 other contacts were made by The White House

16 with the FBI concerning Travelgate?

17 MS. SHAPIRO: Objection. Vague.

18 MR. RAPHAELSON: I'm going to

19 object to the characterization. Mr. Klayman,

20 you keep talking about Travelgate. Mr. Potts

21 has addressed the Travel Office

22 investigation. If you want to define your


1 term, I'll withdraw my objection.

2 MR. KLAYMAN: Why don't we just

3 call that Travelgate? It's more exact.

4 Travel office investigation, Travelgate?

5 MR. RAPHAELSON: Why don't we adopt

6 his characterization since he's the witness?

7 MR. KLAYMAN: I'm taking the

8 deposition. Travel Office investigation we

9 will refer to as Travelgate.

10 MR. RAPHAELSON: Please note a

11 continuing objection.


13 Q Did there come a point in time when

14 there were other contacts between The White

15 House and the FBI over Travelgate?

16 A Well, as we conducted the

17 investigation, there would have been contact.

18 I'm not aware of what contacts they were.

19 Q Were you ultimately responsible for

20 supervising the FBI's part of this

21 investigation?

22 A In a very broad sense, that and


1 tens of thousands of other cases, but I did

2 not have a hands-on role in investigating the

3 Travel Office.

4 Q What do you mean by in a broad

5 sense?

6 A In that it was a Criminal

7 Investigative Division and I was the

8 assistant director of the Criminal

9 Investigative Division. The investigation

10 was handled by the Washington field office.

11 Q But did that fall under your

12 purview at the time, the Washington field

13 office?

14 A Criminal investigations fell under

15 my purview.

16 Q Who was the director of the

17 criminal division at that time?

18 A I was.

19 Q So that was your ultimate

20 responsibility?

21 A Right.

22 Q And the people who conducted that


1 investigation reported to you, correct?

2 A People who conducted that

3 investigation reported to a supervisor at

4 Washington field office who reported to an

5 assistant special agent in the Washington

6 field office who reported to a special agent

7 in charge of Washington field office. That's

8 the -- you don't have investigators reporting

9 directly to FBI headquarters or to the

10 assistant director of the criminal division.

11 Q But did you review reports from

12 time to time as to the progress of that

13 Travelgate investigation?

14 A I reviewed summaries that were

15 provided to me of the progress.

16 Q And who would provide those

17 summaries to you?

18 A People within the Criminal

19 Investigative Division who would receive

20 reports from the Washington field office.

21 Q And who were those people?

22 A I don't have any recollection of --


1 Q Did anyone in your division have

2 any contact with individuals in The White

3 House counsel's office concerning the

4 Travelgate investigation?

5 A Not that I recall, sir.

6 Q Does that mean you don't remember?

7 A It means that I don't recall any

8 contact.

9 Q Can you recall any other individual

10 at The White House besides William Kennedy

11 that the FBI had contact with over

12 Travelgate?

13 A No, sir.

14 Q Anyone from Mrs. Clinton's office

15 at The White House?

16 A No, sir.

17 Q Including Mrs. Clinton?

18 A No, sir.

19 Q Did there come a point in time when

20 FBI files were provided concerning Billy Dale

21 and Mr. Brasseux to The White House?

22 A I'm not aware of FBI files being


1 provided to The White House.

2 Q Are you aware from published

3 reports that the FBI file of Billy Dale, the

4 head of the Travel Office, was obtained by

5 The White House?

6 A From published reports, I am, yes,

7 sir.

8 Q Were you at the FBI at the time

9 that that FBI file was reportedly provided to

10 the White House?

11 A I don't know. When it was

12 provided?

13 MS. SHAPIRO: I object to the

14 terminology you're using.


16 Q Do you know who provided that

17 report from the FBI to The White House?

18 A I have no information that it was

19 provided other than public -- I don't know

20 who, no, sir.

21 Q Have you ever heard of Billy Dale?

22 A Yes, sir.


1 Q Who's Billy Dale?

2 A He was at the Travel Office.

3 Q Was any investigation undertaken

4 into the conduct of the FBI over the

5 Travelgate matter, any FBI investigation?

6 A I don't have any firsthand

7 knowledge that there was.

8 Q Do you have any secondhand

9 knowledge?

10 A I have public reports that there

11 were, yes, sir.

12 Q And what do you know from public

13 reports about any such investigation?

14 MR. RAPHAELSON: Objection to the

15 relevance of this type of an inquiry. You

16 may answer.

17 THE WITNESS: I just simply know

18 that there were public reports that there was

19 an inquiry, yes, sir.


21 Q Have you ever been called before

22 the grand jury by Kenneth Starr in the


1 Travelgate matter?

2 A No, sir.

3 MS. SHAPIRO: Objection. Rele-

4 vancy.


6 Q You can respond.

7 A No, sir.

8 Q Have you ever been questioned by

9 anybody on the Independent Counsel's staff

10 about Travelgate?

11 A No, sir.

12 Q When I use the word "Filegate," do

13 you know what I'm referring to?

14 A Yes, sir.

15 Q Have you ever been questioned by

16 anyone in Ken Starr's Independent Counsel

17 office about Filegate?

18 A No, sir.

19 Q I take it you haven't been called

20 in front of the grand jury?

21 A No, sir.

22 MR. RAPHAELSON: In connection with


1 Filegate?



4 Q Do you know of anyone who has been

5 questioned by Ken Starr and his office

6 concerning Filegate or Travelgate?

7 MS. SHAPIRO: Objection.


9 Q You can respond.

10 A No, I don't know.

11 MR. KLAYMAN: You were served with

12 a subpoena in this case, and I'll have that

13 marked as Exhibit 1.

14 (Potts Deposition Exhibit No. 1

15 was marked for identification.)


17 Q Showing you a copy of Exhibit 1,

18 have you seen this document before?

19 A Yes, sir.

20 Q When did you see it?

21 A I saw it when it was served --

22 provided to my attorney, who provided it to


1 me.

2 Q Have you produced any documents

3 today in response to Exhibit 1, the subpoena

4 duces tecum that was served upon you?

5 A My attorney has documents.

6 MR. KLAYMAN: Can we please have

7 those documents?

8 MR. RAPHAELSON: The record should

9 reflect that in discussions between

10 Ms. Delaney and representatives of your

11 office, Mr. Klayman, we were instructed to

12 make multiple copies for which your office

13 will be reimbursing my firm.

14 MR. KLAYMAN: We'll be happy to.

15 MR. RAPHAELSON: As well as to make

16 the original available, I believe, for

17 inspection and to be returned to us.


19 Q I take it, Mr. Potts, the only

20 thing you have produced is your own

21 deposition which was taken before the House

22 of Representatives on July 26, 1996?


1 MR. RAPHAELSON: There's a second

2 document behind it, Mr. Klayman.


4 Q Have you produced the deposition of

5 Terry Lenzner taken in this lawsuit,

6 Alexander v. FBI, on March 13, 1998?

7 A Yes, sir.

8 Q That's all that you're producing?

9 A Yes, sir.

10 MR. KLAYMAN: Let's take a

11 five-minute break.

12 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're going off

13 video record at 10:14.

14 (Recess)

15 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're back on

16 video record at 10:23.


18 Q Mr. Potts, Exhibit 1, this is the

19 subpoena, did you search for documents in

20 response to Exhibit 1?

21 A Yes, sir.

22 Q What did you do to search for


1 documents in response to Exhibit 1?

2 A I reviewed the subpoena. I

3 searched for documents at my home in the

4 office area where they would be if I had any,

5 and then I searched my office, my current

6 office, for any documents that might be

7 relevant.

8 Q Where is your current office?

9 A At 1140 Connecticut Avenue N.W.

10 Q When you left the FBI, what year

11 was that?

12 A In 1997.

13 Q And did you take employment after

14 you left the FBI at some point?

15 A Yes, sir, I did.

16 Q When was that?

17 A In August -- I'm sorry, in

18 September of 1997.

19 Q And where did you gain employment?

20 A With the Investigative Group

21 International.

22 Q Is that a group that's owned by


1 Terry Lenzner?

2 A Yes, sir, it is.

3 Q Now, when you left the FBI, did you

4 leave with any documents?

5 A No, sir.

6 Q Didn't take any documents with you?

7 A No, sir.

8 Q When you searched for documents at

9 your house, did anyone assist you in that

10 search?

11 A No, sir.

12 Q Where did you look for documents in

13 your house?

14 A In my desk and in some boxes that I

15 had around my desk.

16 Q If you didn't take any documents

17 from the FBI, why did you even search your

18 house?

19 A Because I was looking for any

20 documents that might be responsive.

21 Q What were your criteria for looking

22 for these documents?


1 A The subpoena.

2 Q What made you think you might have

3 some documents?

4 A Because I'd been in the FBI for 24

5 years, and I wanted to look to see if I had

6 any documents that were responsive, and I

7 turned one over --

8 Q Do you think that maybe you did

9 take some documents from the FBI when you

10 left?

11 A I searched, and any documents that

12 I found that I thought might be responsive I

13 turned over to my attorneys, and anything

14 that is responsive and isn't privileged I've

15 turned over to you.

16 Q Are you saying uncategorically that

17 you didn't take any documents when you left

18 the FBI, no documents, diskettes, Dictaphone

19 recordings, anything of that kind?

20 A That's right.

21 Q And where did you search for

22 documents at IGI in your office?


1 A In my office, in my desk and in my

2 bookcase.

3 Q What led you to believe that you

4 might have documents in your office at IGI

5 that were responsive to Judicial Watch's

6 subpoena?

7 A There's nothing that led me to

8 believe that I might have them. I just

9 simply believed that, if I had any documents,

10 they'd either be at my house or they'd be in

11 my office.

12 Q Now, during the time that you were

13 at the FBI, did you ever discuss the FBI file

14 matter known as Filegate with anyone.

15 A Not that I recall, no, sir.

16 Q Does that mean you did not or you

17 just can't recall?

18 A I don't recall any such

19 conversation.

20 Q Did the FBI file controversy ever

21 come to your attention while you were at the

22 FBI?


1 A I don't know that it did.

2 Q What does that mean?

3 A It means exactly what I -- I don't

4 know that it did come to my attention. I

5 don't recall it coming to my attention while

6 I was there.

7 Q Did you produce any documents to

8 your attorney that weren't produced to

9 Judicial Watch pursuant to Judicial Watch's

10 subpoena, Exhibit 1?

11 MR. RAPHAELSON: Objection.

12 MR. KLAYMAN: Have any documents

13 been withheld, Mr. Raphaelson?

14 MR. RAPHAELSON: We've noted our

15 observations.

16 MR. KLAYMAN: Well, I don't see a

17 privileged log, so it's hard for me to know

18 whether documents have been withheld.

19 MR. RAPHAELSON: Documents may have

20 been produced to attorneys that aren't

21 responsive to your subpoena, as broadly

22 worded as this subpoena is.


1 MR. KLAYMAN: Is your position that

2 there are no documents responsive which

3 haven't been produced?

4 MR. RAPHAELSON: There are no

5 responsive documents which have been produced

6 which are not otherwise privileged.

7 MR. KLAYMAN: Does that mean that

8 there are documents which are privileged but

9 which are responsive that haven't been

10 produced?

11 MR. RAPHAELSON: One second.

12 We've produced all responsive

13 documents.


15 Q How is it that you found employment

16 with IGI? How did you learn there was a job

17 there?

18 A I was first -- the first time I

19 heard about IGI was when I received a

20 telephone call from Terry Lenzner. I had

21 been listed as a reference for someone who

22 had retired from the FBI and was seeking


1 employment with IGI, and I'd been listed as a

2 reference. So he called me to interview me

3 about that particular person.

4 Q Who listed you as a reference?

5 MR. RAPHAELSON: Objection,

6 relevance, but you may answer.


8 Q You can respond.

9 A Dick Swenson.

10 Q Who's Dick Swenson?

11 A Dick Swenson's a retired FBI

12 official.

13 Q And what was the type of position

14 that you understood was available?

15 A I didn't understand that any

16 position was available at that time. I

17 subsequently received a call from Mr. Lenzner

18 indicating that he'd like to talk to me about

19 the possibility of employment, and at that

20 time the possibility I think was as the head

21 of the New York office.

22 Q Did there come a point in time when


1 you talked to Mr. Lenzner about what your

2 employment would entail?

3 A Yes, sir.

4 Q When did that occur?

5 A Probably in the summer of 1997.

6 Q Did you have a meeting or did you

7 talk about this on the phone?

8 A Several meetings.

9 Q And what did Mr. Lenzner tell you

10 that you would be doing if hired by IGI?

11 MR. RAPHAELSON: Mr. Klayman, I'm

12 going to enter a continuing objection as to

13 the relevance of the line of inquiry but

14 obviously allow the client to respond.


16 Q You can respond.

17 A Well, after I indicated that I was

18 not interested in the New York assignment, he

19 thought that there might be possibility of

20 employment in the corporate headquarters as a

21 Vice President of the company, and he was

22 particularly -- he thought that I could


1 particularly assist him in quality control

2 and new client development and training.

3 Q Were you still employed by the FBI

4 when you undertook these employment

5 discussions with Mr. Lenzner?

6 A Yes, sir, I was.

7 Q Is that permitted under FBI

8 regulations?

9 A Yes, sir.

10 Q And what position was Mr. Swenson

11 being considered for?

12 A Mr. Swenson was being considered

13 for the head of the Boston office of IGI.

14 Q Was he subsequently employed by

15 IGI?

16 A Yes, sir.

17 Q In the course of your employment

18 discussions with Mr. Lenzner, did he tell you

19 that your FBI experience was important to his

20 company?

21 A Yes, sir.

22 Q What did he tell you about the


1 importance of your prior FBI experience?

2 A That my management and leadership

3 and experience in investigating would be an

4 aid to his company.

5 Q Did he discuss the fact that you

6 had contacts with the FBI that could be

7 important in terms of coming on board at IGI?

8 A Mostly, we talked about contacts

9 with former individuals who had been with

10 U.S. Attorney's Offices or the FBI who were

11 now with law firms or companies and the value

12 that that would be in trying to develop new

13 clients.

14 Q But he also discussed with you your

15 contacts with individuals still employed with

16 the FBI, that that's important as well?

17 MS. SHAPIRO: Objection. Form.


19 Q You can respond.

20 A I'm not sure that he specifically

21 said that at all. We talked about the fact

22 that he would like to bring on more


1 experienced investigators who have law

2 enforcement backgrounds, and he thought that

3 I could be an assist in that.

4 Q During the time that you've been

5 with IGI, have you had any contact with any

6 employees or officials of the FBI?

7 A Yes, sir.

8 Q And you began with IGI in September

9 of 1997, correct?

10 A Of '97, yes, sir.

11 Q Can you tell me the contacts that

12 you've had with individuals or employees of

13 the FBI since you began to work for IGI?

14 MR. RAPHAELSON: Object to the form

15 of the question and I instruct the witness

16 not to answer.

17 MR. KLAYMAN: On what basis?

18 MR. RAPHAELSON: Freedom of

19 associational privilege and a host of other

20 privileges, Mr. Klayman. If you have a

21 question directed in a relevant area to this

22 inquiry, please pose it.


1 MR. KLAYMAN: Freedom of

2 associational privilege?

3 MR. RAPHAELSON: Yes, sir.

4 MR. KLAYMAN: Is this a new

5 privilege that even The White House hasn't

6 thought of yet?

7 MR. RAPHAELSON: Mr. Klayman, it's

8 your time on the deposition. I've made an

9 instruction to the client.

10 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.

11 Are you seconding that privilege,

12 Ms. Shapiro?

13 MS. SHAPIRO: I have nothing to do

14 with that. That's his private attorney, and

15 it doesn't involve his former work at the

16 FBI. I'm representing Mr. Potts in his

17 official capacity as a former FBI official.


19 Q In the course of your duties and

20 responsibilities at IGI, you do have contact

21 with individuals at the FBI, correct?

22 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection.


1 MR. KLAYMAN: Are you instructing

2 him not to answer?

3 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same instruction.

4 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.


6 Q During your time at IGI, have you

7 ever requested any information from any

8 individuals at the FBI?

9 A Yes, sir, I have.

10 Q What information have you request-

11 ed?

12 A I am on a terrorism committee,

13 University Studies Terrorism Committee, and

14 in attempting to assist that University

15 Studies Terrorism Committee I ask the FBI for

16 any publicly available information that they

17 would have about terrorism and structure and

18 issues so that I could use that in my work

19 with the committee.

20 I also was invited to the Aspen

21 Strategy Group as a member of a panel to

22 discuss law enforcement issues on terrorism,


1 and I asked them for publicly -- again,

2 publicly available information which would

3 assist me in that, and Argentina had

4 requested that I come to their country to

5 participate in a panel on their review of

6 terrorism bombings that they had had in 1992,

7 the current structure of their reorganization

8 of law enforcement, and again I asked for any

9 publicly available information that would

10 assist me in that.

11 Q During the time that you've been

12 associated with IGI, have you been involved

13 in investigating certain individuals and

14 entities?

15 MR. RAPHAELSON: Excuse me,

16 Mr. Klayman. If I can have one minute with

17 my client?

18 (Witness conferred with counsel)

19 MR. RAPHAELSON: Back on the

20 record, Mr. Klayman.

21 THE WITNESS: Mr. Klayman, if I

22 might, I would just add to that that at no


1 time in my contact with anyone in the FBI

2 have I ever asked for any confidential

3 information or any nonpublic information,

4 haven't asked for it, wouldn't ask for it,

5 and haven't received it.

6 (Witness conferred with counsel)

7 THE WITNESS: Since leaving the

8 FBI.

9 MR. KLAYMAN: That's unbelievable.

10 I've never seen this in a deposition before,

11 Mr. Raphaelson. You actually leaned over to

12 him and gave him testimony since leaving the

13 FBI. I've never seen that before. That's

14 inappropriate conduct.

15 MR. RAPHAELSON: Mr. Klayman, your

16 characterizations and your experience you can

17 put in the record or not. It's not

18 inappropriate for me to advise a client to

19 specify a time frame.

20 MR. KLAYMAN: That's inappropriate

21 because you have a right of cross-

22 examination, and I'm willing to obviously


1 allow you to exercise that right, but for you

2 to interject in the middle of a question and

3 to insert the statement, "Since leaving the

4 FBI," is outrageous. Certify this. We'll be

5 moving for sanctions.


7 Q Now, Mr. Potts, when that question

8 was pending, did you discuss the answer that

9 you just gave with Mr. Raphaelson?

10 MR. RAPHAELSON: Objection.

11 Instruct not to answer.

12 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it. I've

13 never seen conduct like this.

14 I'll ask you to reconsider,

15 Mr. Raphaelson. Are you going to allow him

16 to tell me who he's been in contact with at

17 the FBI since he's been working for IGI?

18 MR. RAPHAELSON: No, sir, other

19 than in the limited area that I have not

20 objected to, which is the request for

21 information from the FBI. That's an area I

22 have not objected to. If you want to inquire


1 as to who he had contact with in that limited

2 area, I have no objection.


4 Q During the time that you've worked

5 for IGI, have you ever received any

6 documentation from the FBI?

7 MR. RAPHAELSON: Objection. Asked

8 and answered. You may answer again.

9 THE WITNESS: It's the answer that

10 I --


12 Q Other than what you've just

13 testified to.

14 A No, sir.

15 Q During the time you've worked for

16 IGI, have you ever been told by anyone at the

17 FBI where you could find information or

18 documentation about an individual or entity

19 that was being investigated by IGI?

20 A No.

21 Q Have you ever been provided by the

22 FBI, since you begun to work for IGI, any


1 sources or leads on any of the investigations

2 that IGI is conducting?

3 A No.

4 Q During the deposition of Mr. Terry

5 Lenzner he described you as co-managing IGI;

6 is that correct?

7 A That's flattering but I have over

8 the course of the last year assumed more

9 responsibility, but I work for Terry Lenzner.

10 He's the owner of the company. It's a

11 privately-held company, and I have -- like I

12 said, I've taken responsibility for quality

13 control, for conducting some investigations

14 that I brought in, and for supervising some

15 investigations.

16 Q Are you working on any matters

17 concerning Monica Lewinsky?

18 MR. RAPHAELSON: Objection. I

19 instruct the witness not to answer any

20 question regarding any work he is doing at

21 IGI. Mr. Klayman, I indicated to you in

22 writing and by phone that I thought it would


1 be best to postpone this deposition till you

2 resolved the issues relating to those kinds

3 of questions with Mr. Lenzner. We've

4 proceeded as you've requested today. There

5 will be a uniform instruction not to answer

6 questions about the subject matters or

7 potential subject matters of any

8 investigations Mr. Potts is engaged in

9 professionally at this time.

10 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.


12 Q Have you or IGI been involved in

13 investigating Linda Tripp?

14 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection.

15 Same instruction.

16 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.


18 Q Have you or anyone at IGI been

19 involved in investigating Ken Starr in the

20 Office of Independent Counsel?

21 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection,

22 same instruction.


1 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.


3 Q Have you or anyone else at IGI been

4 involved in investigating Judicial Watch or

5 Larry Klayman?

6 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection.

7 Same instruction.

8 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.

9 MR. RAPHAELSON: Excuse me.

10 Additional objection of relevance.


12 Q Have you or anyone else at IGI been

13 involved in investigating any federal or

14 state judicial officer?

15 MR. RAPHAELSON: Objection. Same

16 objection. Same instruction.

17 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it. I take

18 it you're going to give him the same

19 instruction no matter what subject I name?

20 MR. RAPHAELSON: That's what I

21 indicated earlier, that there would be that

22 blanket objection and instruction to any


1 question regarding subject matter of

2 investigations he is involved in.


4 Q With regard to Linda Tripp have you

5 or anyone at IGI been in contact with the

6 Pentagon?

7 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection.

8 Same instruction.

9 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.


11 Q With regard to Linda Tripp, have

12 you or anyone at IGI had access to Linda

13 Tripp's Pentagon file?

14 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection.

15 Same instruction. I'm going to add an

16 additional objection to the entire line of

17 questioning that I've objected to thus far

18 which is the absence of the good faith basis

19 for the question as to Mr. Potts' involve-

20 ment.

21 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.



1 Q Have you or anyone at IGI had

2 access to anybody at The White House since

3 you began working there in 1997, working at

4 IGI?

5 MR. RAPHAELSON: Objection to the

6 form of the question.


8 Q You can respond.

9 A I can't answer for -- I don't know

10 what you mean by "access."

11 Q Have you or anyone at IGI since you

12 began working at IGI had contact with anyone

13 at The White House?

14 MR. RAPHAELSON: Objection to the

15 form of the question. I ask that you --


17 Q You can respond.

18 MR. RAPHAELSON: I'm going to

19 instruct him not to answer. I'm going to ask

20 that you ask a noncompound question.

21 MR. KLAYMAN: You're instructing

22 him on that basis not to answer?



2 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.


4 Q Since September of 1997 do you know

5 of anyone at IGI who has had contact with any

6 individual at The White House?

7 MR. RAPHAELSON: Mr. Klayman,

8 that's the same -- never mind, it's not the

9 same. Withdrawn.

10 Excuse me, no, I'm not going to

11 withdraw. I'm going to interject the same

12 objection. It could have a tendency to

13 reveal a client, and so I will object. Same

14 grounds. Same instruction.


16 Q Since September of 1997 have you or

17 anyone else at IGI had contact with Anthony

18 Pellicano?

19 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection.

20 Same instruction.

21 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.



1 Q Since September of 1997, have you

2 or anyone at IGI had any contact with a Jack

3 Palladino?

4 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection

5 same instruction.

6 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.


8 Q Since 1997 have you or anyone else

9 at IGI have had any contact with a Gloria

10 Sutherland?

11 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection.

12 Same instruction.

13 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.


15 Q Since September of 1997 have you or

16 anyone else at IGI had contact with a Kenneth

17 Bacon?

18 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection.

19 Same instruction.


21 Q With a Clifford Burnet?

22 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection.


1 Same instruction.


3 Q With Terry Good, director of Office

4 of Records Management at The White House?

5 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection.

6 Same instruction.


8 Q James Carville?

9 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection

10 same instruction.


12 Q Jane Mayer of the New Yorker?

13 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection.

14 Same instruction.


16 Q Sidney Blumenthal of The White

17 House?

18 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection,

19 same instruction.


21 Q Mrs. Hillary Clinton?

22 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection.


1 Same instruction.


3 Q President Bill Clinton?

4 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection.

5 Same instruction.


7 Q Erskine Bowles?

8 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection,

9 same instruction.


11 Q Ann Lewis?

12 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection.

13 Same instruction.


15 Q Mike McCurry?

16 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection.

17 Same instruction.


19 Q Rahm Emanuel?

20 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection.

21 Same instruction.



1 Q During the period from September

2 1997 to present to the best of your knowledge

3 has anyone at IGI received any documents from

4 White House files?

5 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection.

6 Same instruction.

7 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.


9 Q From September 1997, have you or

10 anyone else received copies of letters from

11 The White House written by Kathleen Willey to

12 the President?

13 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection.

14 Same instruction.

15 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.


17 Q Since September of 1997 up to the

18 present, have you received any information

19 from Linda Tripp's Pentagon file?

20 A Have I received any information?

21 Q You or anyone at IGI?

22 MR. RAPHAELSON: Same objection.


1 Same instruction.

2 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it. We are

3 going to postpone this deposition.

4 We will be moving for relief with

5 the court. I'm going to ask for an expedited

6 copy of the transcript. We will be asking

7 for sanctions. This deposition's adjourned.

8 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're going off

9 video record at 10:49.

10 MR. RAPHAELSON: Not till I finish

11 my statement we're not.

12 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on video

13 record at 10:49.

14 MR. RAPHAELSON: I would note for

15 the record that I appreciate Mr. Klayman's

16 courtesies from the time that he served the

17 first subpoena in connection with my

18 recuperation from quadruple by-pass surgery.

19 I would note also for the record

20 that the objections and instructions which

21 were given here today were indicated to

22 Mr. Klayman in advance of today's deposition,


1 the necessity of which are strictly by virtue

2 of the fact that Mr. Klayman has not yet

3 resolved with Mr. Lenzner the scope of the

4 privileges asserted by Mr. Lenzner in that

5 deposition.

6 Mr. Potts cannot be put in a

7 position of revealing client confidences,

8 particularly when those precise issues have

9 been left partially joined by Mr. Klayman

10 with Mr. Potts's employer.

11 We can certify up whatever

12 Mr. Klayman would like, and I would also like

13 Mr. Klayman to note to the extent that he's

14 only going to provide the court with the

15 certified portion, what he calls the

16 certified portion of the video transcript,

17 that there was a portion of the video

18 transcript after two sets of objections where

19 he asked a question that I did not object to

20 and to which an answer was presented because

21 the question was proper in form and that I

22 did not object to the second-to-the-last


1 question that he posed which I only objected

2 to when he rephrased it.

3 MR. KLAYMAN: Let the record

4 reflect that we are going to provide the

5 court with an entire copy of the transcript.

6 The record is clear in terms of what the

7 understandings are between the parties.

8 I take issue with your

9 characterization, but we will be moving the

10 court for expedited relief, and this

11 deposition is adjourned.

12 MR. RAPHAELSON: Adjourned.

13 MS. SHAPIRO: Let me just say

14 before we adjourn that we also object to this

15 as wasteful of the parties' time and efforts.

16 This issue should have been resolved ahead of

17 time and we object to having to come back for

18 another deposition.

19 MR. GAFFNEY: I join Ms. Shapiro's

20 objections.

21 MR. KLAYMAN: We will be moving

22 accordingly. Thank you.


1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off video record

2 at 10:52.

3 (Whereupon, at 10:52 a.m., the

4 deposition of LARRY POTTS was

5 adjourned.)

6 * * * * *