51
1 questions, Mr. Stephanopoulos. You will
2 answer them.
3 A I talked to him about --
4 Q If you don't wish to answer them,
5 we can go to the court.
6 A I talk to him about a lot of
7 different things.
8 Q Did you talk to him about the
9 scandals?
10 A What are the scandals?
11 Q Let's take, for instance, the
12 Monica Lewinsky scandal. Did you talk to him
13 about that?
14 A Oh, I'm sure I have.
15 Q Did you talk to him about
16 adversaries of the Clinton White House?
17 A Oh, there are probably some days
18 when he considers me one, so, yeah.
19 Q Do you ever talk to him about Larry
20 Klayman?
21 A No.
22 Q Judicial Watch?
52
1 A Oh, wait, that's not true. I
2 probably -- I talked to him probably once
3 about you.
4 Q When did you talk to him about me?
5 A Probably sometime last week.
6 Q Did you raise it or did he raise
7 it?
8 A I don't remember. He -- he might
9 have mentioned it. There was a press report
10 that said he had been deposed as well or have
11 been called to a deposition as well. So
12 that's probably the context in which it came
13 up.
14 Q Who raised it?
15 A I don't remember. We don't have
16 real formal conversations. We just kind of
17 talk.
18 Q What did you say about Larry
19 Klayman and Judicial Watch?
20 A I said I have to go waste a day
21 with this guy.
22 Q Anything else discussed?
53
1 A Probably not.
2 Q Did Mr. Carville tell you that he
3 wasn't going to show up for his deposition?
4 A No, he said he was busy. He said
5 he was going to show up when he could and it
6 would be later I think.
7 Q What was he busy doing?
8 A I don't know.
9 Q Did he tell you that he was going
10 to film an episode of "Mad About You" in Los
11 Angeles?
12 A He doesn't talk to me about that.
13 He talks to me more about his speeches. But,
14 no, I did hear that he was doing that.
15 Q Where did you hear that?
16 A I don't know. I mean I have 40
17 phone conversations a day. Somebody told me
18 that.
19 Q He didn't tell you he was going to
20 South America, did he, after that?
21 A He probably is going to South
22 America. He goes to South America
54
1 frequently. Again, I question the relevance
2 of --
3 Q But you don't know that, don't you?
4 A I question the relevance to my time
5 in the White House and what I knew about FBI
6 files when I was in the White House.
7 Q You're a private citizen, aren't
8 you, Mr. Stephanopoulos?
9 A Sure am.
10 Q You're not a government official
11 now, are you?
12 A Which is another question about why
13 I'm here.
14 Q Are you saying your time is more
15 valuable than mine?
16 A Oh, I think so, yeah.
17 Q Is your time more valuable than my
18 colleagues here?
19 A Since you asked, yes.
20 Q Why is your time more valuable?
21 A Well, it's certainly more valuable
22 to me and my guess is that if -- you know, we
55
1 live in a capitalist free market system, if
2 you showed -- if we did a pure evaluation, it
3 probably is more valuable than yours, at this
4 moment in time.
5 Q Why is that?
6 A Got me.
7 Q Are you saying my time is not
8 valuable representing the people whose files
9 were given by the FBI to the White House
10 under the Clinton administration?
11 A I think the time you're wasting
12 asking these kinds of questions proves that
13 you don't think your time is pretty valuable.
14 Q I'm trying to get your state of
15 mind, Mr. Stephanopoulos. Give you a little
16 insight. You don't think that's an important
17 matter, the people whose files were taken?
18 A I think it's an incredibly
19 important matter which has been investigated
20 by an independent counsel, several
21 congressional committees, the Office of
22 Government Ethics, and from what I can
56
1 determine all of these official bodies have
2 determined that no one -- that certainly I
3 was not involved in any wrongdoing and they
4 haven't come up with any other wrongdoing by
5 any other person beyond what seems to have
6 been a mistake.
7 Now, if you choose to sit here and
8 ask me whether I've ever been -- had a
9 speeding ticket, I would suggest that that
10 shows that you don't think your own time is
11 very valuable and you have plenty of it to
12 waste on asking me whether I've ever gotten a
13 speeding ticket.
14 Q Mr. Stephanopoulos, what it shows
15 is that I have the authority to ask the
16 questions and you have the duty to answer the
17 questions.
18 If you don't like that duty, you
19 can go to the court.
20 A No. As I said when I walked in
21 today, I think this is frivolous, but I will
22 my duty and I am happy to do my duty.
57
1 Q I'm trying to say, do you have any
2 respect for the rights of the peoples whose
3 files were taken and used in the White House?
4 A I do have respect for that and I
5 don't accept that -- that your assumption
6 that they were used in the White House, I
7 don't know that they were used in the White
8 House. I certainly have no personal
9 knowledge of them being used in the White
10 House and were you to ask questions about
11 that and not waste all of our precious
12 valuable time --
13 Q We will get to that,
14 Mr. Stephanopoulos. Right now I will ask the
15 questions.
16 What did you discuss specifically
17 about this lawsuit with Mr. Carville?
18 A I already answered that question.
19 Q Now, when I walked into the
20 deposition this morning, you were reviewing a
21 document. Was that the deposition of Paul
22 Begala?
58
1 A I looked at it, sure.
2 Q Who gave that to you?
3 A My attorney showed it to me.
4 Q Do you have a copy of that with
5 you?
6 A I don't.
7 MR. KLAYMAN: I'm going to ask that
8 it be marked as Exhibit 4.
9 MR. BRAND: It's my copy. I'm not
10 giving it to you. It has my notes on it.
11 It's attorney work product and it's what I
12 used to prepare for this deposition.
13 MR. KLAYMAN: Where did you get it,
14 Mr. Brand?
15 MR. BRAND: I got it from the
16 Department of Justice.
17 MR. KLAYMAN: When did you get it
18 from them?
19 MR. BRAND: If you want to depose
20 me, you can schedule me separately, but I'm
21 not going to do that today.
22 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
59
1 Q Did you talk to Mr. Begala about
2 his testimony, Mr. Stephanopoulos?
3 MR. BRAND: That's been asked and
4 answered.
5 No, no. Now I'm going to get upset
6 and I'm going to tell you that we are here
7 due to a subpoena. We will go to the judge
8 if you continue to ask questions three and
9 four times that Mr. Stephanopoulos has
10 already answered. That is a waste of time,
11 Larry.
12 MR. KLAYMAN: It's not a waste of
13 time.
14 MR. BRAND: Let's get on with the
15 substance of this case.
16 MR. KLAYMAN: No, because we're not
17 getting answers and I'm trying to refresh his
18 recollection.
19 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
20 Q Did you talk to Begala about this
21 deposition either after you got your subpoena
22 or after Begala was deposed?
60
1 A Not beyond mentioning that I was
2 doing it, no.
3 Q When did you mention you were doing
4 it?
5 A Sometime after he got deposed and I
6 got deposed or I got subpoenaed.
7 Q Have you discussed your deposition
8 with anyone in the White House besides
9 Begala?
10 A No. Oh, wait. Wait. Let me --
11 Q Do you work at the White House now?
12 A I mentioned to Sally because I was
13 trying to figure out what my responsibilities
14 were and I did have one conversation with
15 Sally over how to handle my representation at
16 this deposition.
17 Q When did you have that
18 conversation?
19 A Right after the subpoena sometime.
20 Q You called Sally?
21 A I don't think so. I think she
22 called me.
61
1 Q What did she say to?
2 MS. SHAPIRO: Objection. Those
3 conversations are attorney-client privileged.
4 MR. KLAYMAN: She's not the counsel
5 for Mr. Stephanopoulos.
6 MS. SHAPIRO: Mr. Stephanopoulos is
7 a former employee of the Executive Office of
8 the President and, as such, communications
9 with White House counsel are privileged.
10 MR. KLAYMAN: Well, let's establish
11 what was discussed.
12 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
13 Q What did you discuss general
14 subject matter with Ms. Paxton?
15 MS. SHAPIRO: He's already
16 testified as to what he discussed.
17 Could I just, please? You did this
18 at the last deposition, Mr. Klayman. We need
19 one person to be speaking at a time because
20 the court reporter can't take down when two
21 people are talking over each other.
22 If I can assert my objection, then
62
1 I will listen to what you have to say but not
2 at the same time.
3 MR. KLAYMAN: Go ahead.
4 MS. SHAPIRO: Thank you.
5 MR. KLAYMAN: Go ahead. I thought
6 you were done. Do you have an objection?
7 MS. SHAPIRO: Yes, my objection was
8 asked and answered. He's already testified
9 to the substance of the conversation and he's
10 not going to go further into what the
11 conversation was.
12 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
13 Q Are you going to be able to
14 identify the general subject matter of the
15 conversations?
16 MR. BRAND: He did, Larry. He said
17 it was the question of representation.
18 Mr. Stephanopoulos has multiple
19 roles here; one as a private citizen, one as
20 an employee of ABC News and one as a former
21 employee of the White House.
22 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
63
1 Q I take it that Ms. Paxton contacted
2 you, correct?
3 MR. BRAND: That's been asked and
4 answered already as well.
5 MR. KLAYMAN: Just confirming.
6 THE WITNESS: Again, I mean if you
7 want to repeat questions three and four
8 times, it shows how little you think of your
9 own worth, but, sure.
10 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify this.
11 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
12 Q Now, when you took these documents
13 out of the White House, where did you take
14 them? Who took them, number one, when you
15 left the White House to your current
16 employment? Where did you take them?
17 A My office I think.
18 Q At your house?
19 A No, at Columbia.
20 Q What's the address of your office
21 at Columbia University?
22 A 1315 International Affairs
64
1 Building.
2 Q How many boxes or so were there?
3 A A few. I don't know.
4 Q Roughly speaking?
5 A A few.
6 Q Does that mean two?
7 A No, it's three to five I think.
8 Q Three to five. How big were the
9 boxes, roughly speaking?
10 A Standard boxes.
11 Q Photocopy paper type boxes?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Who unloaded those documents when
14 you took them?
15 A I think I did.
16 Q You're not sure?
17 A No, I think it was brought up to my
18 office. Yeah, I did.
19 Q Where did you unload them? Where
20 did you put them?
21 A My office.
22 Q Were they put in the file cabinet?
65
1 A Yes.
2 Q What kind of file cabinets do you
3 have in your office?
4 A Standard file cabinets.
5 Q Were they categorized or were they
6 just thrown into the file cabinets?
7 A No, I think they were categorized.
8 Q How were they categorized?
9 A Generally by subject.
10 Q Do you have an assistant at
11 Columbia University that helps you or
12 assistant general?
13 A Yeah, I think his name is Chris
14 Glaros.
15 Q How is that spelled?
16 A G-l-a-r-o-s.
17 Q Chris Glaros?
18 A Uh-huh.
19 Q What's his formal job title?
20 A He's my research assistant.
21 Q When did you hire him?
22 A January 1997.
66
1 Q Is he retained by you or is he
2 retained by Columbia?
3 A Columbia.
4 Q What was he hired to do?
5 A Research assistant.
6 Q Is he helping you with your current
7 book?
8 A Yeah.
9 Q Is your book written under the
10 auspices of Columbia University?
11 A No.
12 Q Columbia is paying his salary?
13 A Sure.
14 Q They know he's helping you with
15 your book?
16 A Sure.
17 Q Who is it that hired you at
18 Columbia University?
19 A The provost.
20 Q What's his name?
21 A Jonathan Cole.
22 Q Did you clear the hiring of
67
1 Mr. Glaros with Mr. Cole?
2 A I probably did it with someone
3 else. I wouldn't have talked to him about
4 that, but --
5 Q Who did you talk to?
6 A Someone at the School of
7 International Public Affairs.
8 Q How are these documents
9 categorized?
10 A By subject.
11 Q What were the subjects?
12 A A lot of different subjects.
13 Q Tell me.
14 A Various subjects. I don't, you
15 know --
16 Q Well, let's have one.
17 A Gays in the military.
18 Q Did you have a subject on Filegate?
19 A I don't think so.
20 Q But you're not sure?
21 A No, I don't believe I do because I
22 have checked. I don't have anything.
68
1 Q You didn't review the documents
2 that you took specifically before you
3 appeared here today, did you?
4 A I have reviewed them several times
5 and I have looked and I don't have anything
6 in Filegate.
7 Q But you didn't review them after
8 you received the subpoena to appear here
9 today, did you?
10 A I don't have anything.
11 Q You didn't review them, did you?
12 A I didn't have to review them
13 because I have been subpoenaed on this so
14 many times, I didn't have to review them
15 again because I don't have any documents.
16 Q Did you ask Mr. Glaros to review
17 them and see whether there is anything that
18 was responsive to Exhibit 3?
19 A No.
20 Q Were there any documents that you
21 took that related to Travelgate, the firing
22 of Billy Dale in the Travel Office?
69
1 A No.
2 Q You have no documents on that you
3 took?
4 A No.
5 Q You're not sure?
6 A No. I have been deposed and
7 subpoenaed on that as well.
8 Q Are you willing to say
9 categorically that if I subpoenaed all of the
10 documents which you took, that there would be
11 nothing in there from Travelgate or Filegate
12 that relates in any way?
13 A Certainly Filegate and I'm
14 reasonably certain Travelgate.
15 Q Is there anything in there with
16 regard to Craig Livingstone?
17 A I don't think so, no.
18 Q But you're not sure?
19 A No, I don't -- I just don't have
20 anything on Craig Livingstone. I think there
21 was something in the official White House
22 archives having something to do with --
70
1 Q I didn't ask you that. I don't
2 care about the White House archives right
3 now.
4 A Then, no, I don't have anything.
5 Yeah, I don't have anything person on Craig
6 Livingstone.
7 Q But you didn't check this before
8 you came into the deposition today?
9 A I did not recheck it. I checked it
10 several times.
11 Q After you left Washington, D.C.,
12 have you ever received a subpoena from any
13 entity, governmental or from a private
14 lawsuit, other than Judicial Watch?
15 A I think so.
16 Q Who was that?
17 A I don't remember, but I think I
18 have.
19 Q Was it from Ken Starr's office, one
20 of the Grand Juries?
21 A Probably. I don't remember.
22 Q Did they ask for you to produce the
71
1 documents you had taken from the White House?
2 A On any relevant ones and if I had
3 them, I did.
4 Q Did you provide all the documents
5 to them?
6 MR. BRAND: I'm going to object
7 because I don't know that I want to get into
8 what we did with respect to Mr. Starr's
9 investigation in the strictures of Rule 6(d),
10 which apply.
11 MR. KLAYMAN: They don't apply to
12 you, Mr. Brand. They apply to Ken Starr --
13 MR. BRAND: They apply to --
14 MR. KLAYMAN: -- and I'm entitled
15 to ask questions in a civil suit. Are you
16 instructing him not to answer?
17 MR. BRAND: Yes, I am.
18 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.
19 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
20 Q When you were at the White House,
21 did you keep desk calendars?
22 A Sure.
72
1 Q Did you keep any other kinds of
2 notations of your daily activities, you or
3 your secretary or anyone that you worked
4 with?
5 A I think some -- at various times
6 she probably kept phone logs as well.
7 Q She meaning Ms. Capps?
8 A Or whoever was my assistant at the
9 time.
10 Q Did you have more than one
11 assistant at the White House?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Who was that?
14 A Heather Beckel.
15 Q How is that spelled?
16 A B-e-c-k-e-l.
17 Q When did she work for you?
18 A '93 and she left sometime, I
19 believe, in '95.
20 Q What was her job title?
21 A Executive assistant.
22 Q To you?
73
1 A Yeah.
2 Q Is she related to Bob Beckel?
3 A Not that I know of, no.
4 Q Where did she go in 1995?
5 A She -- I think she moved to Texas.
6 Q Where in Texas?
7 A Austin, I believe.
8 Q Did she work with Begala in Texas?
9 A I don't think so, no.
10 Q Where did she go to work, if at
11 all?
12 A I don't remember exactly. She did
13 work and she did do some work -- she took
14 some time off and she did do some work for
15 the -- I think the democratic party, although
16 I couldn't swear to it, and -- and then after
17 the '96 election, she moved to New York.
18 Q Do you know who she's working for
19 in Austin today?
20 A No. As I said, she moved to New
21 York.
22 Q She's now in New York?
74
1 A Yes.
2 Q Where does she live in New York?
3 A I don't know where she lives.
4 Q Who is she working for?
5 A She works for Polo Ralph Lauren.
6 Q Ralph Lauren?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Where is Ralph Lauren located?
9 Where is her office located?
10 A Manhattan. I don't know the exact
11 office.
12 Q What street?
13 A I don't know.
14 Q Do you know what her position is?
15 A She's got a good job. I don't know
16 the title exactly.
17 Q Anyone else who worked with you as
18 an assistant during your years at the White
19 House?
20 A No.
21 Q They kept desk calendars and phone
22 logs, correct?
75
1 A Uh-huh.
2 Q You left the White House with your
3 desk calendars?
4 A I think I may have had some copies,
5 but I -- again, I couldn't swear to it. I
6 don't know exactly what I have.
7 Q You have the desk calendars with
8 you?
9 A With me?
10 Q In New York.
11 A I may have some.
12 Q Phone logs, you took those with
13 you?
14 A I may have some copies. I don't
15 know if I have them. I don't know which ones
16 I have.
17 Q Since you have left the White House
18 have you ever called into the White House and
19 say I need certain documents sent to me?
20 A No.
21 Q Have you ever asked anyone at the
22 White House since you left to look at
76
1 documents to retrieve information for you?
2 A No.
3 Q Or to confirm information for you?
4 A Not that I know of, no.
5 Q Look at request number three, which
6 asks for any and all calendars, desk diaries,
7 appointment books, journals, logs or diaries
8 created or maintained by or for George
9 Stephanopoulos. Do you see that?
10 A Uh-huh.
11 Q You haven't produced those, have
12 you, Mr. Stephanopoulos?
13 A I don't -- I think I produced
14 everything relevant. I don't have anything
15 relevant to the FBI.
16 Q Well, I didn't ask that. We asked
17 for calendars, desk diaries, appointment
18 books, journals, logs or diaries created or
19 maintained by or for Mr. George
20 Stephanopoulos. Now, you just admitted that
21 you have those documents, don't you?
22 A I may have some of them.
77
1 Q You haven't produced them to
2 Judicial Watch, have you? You don't have
3 them here today, do you?
4 A I don't have anything here today,
5 no.
6 Q Did you look for those documents
7 before you came today pursuant to the
8 subpoena which you received from Judicial
9 Watch?
10 A I check everything relevant.
11 Q You don't consider those relevant?
12 A I'd be happy to go back and check
13 again. I said I may have some.
14 Q Well, we will ask you to go back
15 and check again because we've requested them.
16 Now, did you check the documents
17 which you took with regard to number four,
18 "Any and all records, correspondence, notes,
19 communications or other documents concerning
20 or relating to communications to or from Jane
21 Sherburne, Esquire, concerning or relating to
22 the access to and disclosure of FBI
78
1 background investigation files or summary
2 reports on former Reagan and Bush appointees,
3 employees and others."
4 A Yes, I don't have any.
5 Q You're saying you did specifically
6 check all of your records before you came in
7 here today with regard to request number
8 four?
9 A I've checked them several times. I
10 don't have any.
11 Q But not with yard to our request,
12 correct?
13 A No, I -- I have checked the
14 specific request. I know I don't have
15 anything.
16 Q The bottom line here is you simply
17 told Mr. Brand I don't have anything that's
18 responsive, correct, and you didn't do a
19 check?
20 A No, I checked --
21 Q You want to save a lot of time
22 here?
79
1 A I have checked my files several
2 times.
3 Q But not in response to Judicial
4 Watch's subpoena?
5 A I have checked my files several
6 times. I do not have any.
7 Q You didn't check them in response
8 to Judicial Watch's subpoena?
9 A I have checked my files several
10 times. I don't have anything.
11 Q Not in response to Judicial Watch's
12 subpoena, correct?
13 A I have checked my files several
14 times. I don't have anything.
15 Q Yes or no with regard to our
16 subpoena.
17 A I have checked my files several
18 times. I don't have anything.
19 Q You don't want to answer that
20 question?
21 A I said I have checked my files
22 several times pursuant to the subpoena and I
80
1 don't have any.
2 Q Did you check them with regard to
3 Judicial Watch's subpoena that you received?
4 A I have checked --
5 Q When did you do that?
6 A I don't know.
7 Q When did you do that?
8 A I have checked my files several
9 times. I don't have anything.
10 Q What day did you check them?
11 A I don't remember.
12 Q Well, if you checked them several
13 times, how come you didn't produce your
14 calendars?
15 A I have checked several times in the
16 past. I don't have anything relating to the
17 FBI.
18 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify this whole
19 line of questioning.
20 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
21 Q Number five, "Any and all records,
22 correspondence, notes, communications or
81
1 other documents concerning or relating to
2 communications to or from Cheryl Mills,
3 Esquire, concerning or relating to the access
4 to and disclosure of FBI background
5 investigation files or summary reports on
6 former Reagan and Bush Administration
7 appointees and employees and others."
8 A I don't have any.
9 Q Did you specifically check your
10 files with regard to that request?
11 A Yes.
12 Q When was that?
13 A I don't remember.
14 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.
15 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
16 Q Number six, "Any and all records,
17 correspondence, notes, communications or
18 other documents concerning or relating to or
19 from Bernard Nussbaum, Esquire, concerning or
20 relating to the access to and disclosure of
21 FBI background investigation files or summary
22 reports on former Reagan and Bush appointees
82
1 and employees or others."
2 Did you check your files with
3 regard to that document request?
4 A Yes, I don't have any.
5 Q When did you check the files?
6 A I don't remember.
7 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.
8 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
9 Q Number seven, "Any and all records,
10 correspondence, notes, communications or
11 other documents concerning or relating to
12 communications to or from Jack Quinn,
13 Esquire, concerning or relating to the access
14 to and disclosure of FBI background
15 investigation files or summary reports on
16 former Reagan and Bush administration
17 appointees, employees or others."
18 Did you check your files with
19 regard to request number seven?
20 A I checked my files. I don't have
21 any.
22 Q When did you check your files?
83
1 A I don't remember.
2 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.
3 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
4 Q Number eight, "Any and all records,
5 correspondence, notes, communications or
6 other documents concerning or relating to
7 communications to or from Louis Freeh
8 concerning or relating to the access to and
9 disclosure of FBI background investigation
10 files or summary reports on former Reagan and
11 Bush administration appointees and employees
12 or others."
13 Did you check your files for
14 document request number eight?
15 A I have checked my files. I don't
16 have anything.
17 Q When did you check them?
18 A I don't remember when I checked
19 them.
20 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.
21 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
22 Q Number nine, "Any all and records,
84
1 correspondence, notes, communications or
2 other documents concerning or relating to
3 communications to or from Howard Shapiro,
4 Esquire, concerning or relating to the access
5 to and disclosure of FBI background
6 investigation files or summary reports on
7 former Reagan and Bush administration
8 appointees and employees or others."
9 Did you check your files with
10 regard to that request?
11 A Yes. I don't have any. I don't
12 remember when.
13 Q When did you check your files?
14 A I don't remember.
15 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.
16 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
17 Q 10, "Any and all records,
18 correspondence, notes, communications or
19 other documents concerning or relating to
20 communications to or from Paul Begala
21 concerning on relating to the access to and
22 disclosure of FBI background investigation
85
1 files or summary reports in former Reagan and
2 Bush administration appointees and employees
3 or others."
4 Did you check your files?
5 A Yes.
6 Q When did you do that?
7 A I don't have anything. I don't
8 remember.
9 Q Do you keep notes from time to
10 time? Do you take notes?
11 A From time to time?
12 Q Yeah.
13 A Sure.
14 Q When you were at the White House,
15 did you take notes?
16 A Not really.
17 Q You're saying you never took a
18 note?
19 A I didn't say that.
20 Q Did you have a system for filing
21 your notes?
22 A No.
86
1 Q Were they filed?
2 A Not really.
3 Q Were they kept?
4 A Some personal notes were kept.
5 Q Did you take some notes with you?
6 A Personal notes?
7 Q Yeah.
8 A Sure.
9 Q How do you define personal notes?
10 A Personal information.
11 Q If it deals with government
12 business and you write it down, does that
13 make it personal?
14 A It may not necessarily, but, again,
15 we've already gone over this.
16 Q Well, we have not gone over this.
17 A I don't have any notes on FBI
18 files.
19 Q If you were sitting there taking a
20 note on some matter that was occurring at the
21 White House and you wrote it down on a note
22 pad; what kind of note pad did you use?
87
1 Yellow note pads?
2 A Sometimes. Sometimes I just wrote
3 on the back of a card.
4 Q Sometimes you took notes with
5 regard to what was going on while you were at
6 the White House, correct?
7 A I might do it as a memory aid,
8 yeah, if I had to answer a press question.
9 But I didn't keep any systematic notes.
10 Q But you kept some notes?
11 A I'm sure I wrote some notes, yeah.
12 Q If that notation concerns something
13 that was going on at the White House, that
14 was an official note, was it not?
15 A I don't know the exact -- you know,
16 I'd have to go back over the whole legal
17 definition of it in front of me right now.
18 Q But you took notes from time to
19 time of what was going on at the White House,
20 correct?
21 A Every once in awhile I wrote a note
22 down, sure.
88
1 Q Took some of the notes of what you
2 recorded when you left the White House and
3 went to Columbia University, correct?
4 A I may have taken some personal
5 notes, yes.
6 Q You term those personal notes?
7 A Uh-huh.
8 Q Correct?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Even if it relates to government
11 business, if you wrote it down, it's
12 personal?
13 A I didn't say that.
14 Q Correct?
15 A I didn't say that.
16 Q If you wrote it down, does it then
17 still belong to the government?
18 MS. SHAPIRO: Could I put an
19 objection here, it's drawing to a legal
20 conclusion.
21 MR. KLAYMAN: Based on his
22 knowledge --
89
1 MS. SHAPIRO: He can't define
2 legally what is a personal document.
3 MR. KLAYMAN: I'm not asking for
4 him to be an expert here. I'm asking him his
5 knowledge of whether it's personal or
6 official. Please don't make speaking
7 objections.
8 THE WITNESS: I believe I was
9 taking personal notes.
10 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
11 Q What you're saying is any time you
12 wrote something down that occurred at the
13 White House then it was personal?
14 A I didn't say that.
15 Q Then what's your definition?
16 A I said --
17 Q What was the definition you were
18 going on?
19 MS. SHAPIRO: Objection. It is
20 asking for him to make a legal conclusion and
21 it's been asked and answered.
22 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
90
1 Q You can respond.
2 A I think it's been answered.
3 Q You can respond.
4 A I think I have answered it already.
5 Q I want to know what was in your
6 state of mind when you left the White House.
7 Was anything you wrote down dealing with
8 business at the White House, as long as you
9 wrote it down, is that personal to you?
10 A I don't know that that was the
11 definition I used. I believe I was taking
12 personal documents.
13 Q What was the definition you used?
14 A It was personal.
15 Q That was personal?
16 A Huh?
17 Q That was personal?
18 A What was personal?
19 Q If you wrote something down in the
20 ordinary course of your work at the White
21 House that was in your handwriting, it was
22 personal?
91
1 A I've already answered this
2 question.
3 Q Was it personal to you or not?
4 A I believe I took personal things,
5 yeah.
6 Q If you were to write, for instance,
7 that you talked with this press reporter
8 about something, you wrote it down, that
9 would be a personal note if it dealt with the
10 White House?
11 A I didn't generally write that down.
12 I wouldn't keep something like that probably.
13 Q Of the notes that you took that you
14 now have at Columbia University, do some of
15 them deal with the work that you were doing
16 at the White House?
17 A At some level, yeah, but I believe
18 I took personal things. I don't have
19 anything related to the FBI files.
20 Q Mr. Stephanopoulos, I'm just
21 putting you on notice that we're going to be
22 subpoenaing everything that you took and
92
1 we're going to ask the court at a minimum to
2 review that. Do you want to answer me now
3 and make it easy?
4 MR. BRAND: Well, since you've said
5 you're going to do that, why don't we move
6 on.
7 MR. KLAYMAN: No, I'm going to ask
8 the questions now. I'm taking a voir dire.
9 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
10 Q Are you saying that everything you
11 took dealt with, you know, your personal
12 life, that it didn't deal with what you're
13 working on at the White House?
14 MR. BRAND: Larry, if you want to
15 testify, switch places with him and put your
16 hand under oath.
17 MR. KLAYMAN: I'm asking the
18 question.
19 MR. BRAND: No, you're putting
20 words in his mouth. Ask a question. Don't
21 tell him what he just said unless we're going
22 to sit here and have it read back and hear
93
1 what he said.
2 MR. KLAYMAN: I will ask the
3 question a different way, Stanley, I have no
4 problem, Mr. Brand.
5 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
6 Q Did every document that you took,
7 does it all deal with your personal life and
8 not the White House?
9 A There's obviously overlap. I was a
10 person working in the White House.
11 Q Some deals with your work at the
12 White House, correct, some of those documents
13 that you took?
14 A I believe that personal documents
15 suggest that, you know, this was all about my
16 private life and my life with my family and
17 friends. No, that's not true, right.
18 MR. KLAYMAN: Off the record.
19 (Discussion off the record)
20 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
21 Q Request number eight. You can
22 advise me if I'm overlapping here. It's not
94
1 my intent. "Any and all records,
2 correspondence, notes, communications or
3 other documents concerning or relating to
4 communications to or from Mr. Louis Freeh
5 concerning or relating to the access to and
6 disclosure of FBI background investigation
7 files or summary reports on former Reagan and
8 Bush administration appointees and employees
9 or others."
10 Did you search for those files?
11 MS. SHAPIRO: You just did that
12 question.
13 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
14 Q Request number 11, "Any and all
15 records, correspondence, notes or
16 communications or other documents concerning
17 or relating to communications to or from
18 Sidney Blumenthal concerning or relating to
19 the access to and disclosure of FBI
20 background investigation files or summary
21 reports in former Reagan and Bush
22 administration appointees, employees or
95
1 others."
2 Did you search for any such
3 documents in response to Judicial Watch's
4 subpoena?
5 A I don't have any. I don't remember
6 when I searched for it.
7 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.
8 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
9 Q Since you've left the White House
10 have you spoken with Sidney Blumenthal?
11 A Oh, sure.
12 Q Have you spoken with Sidney
13 Blumenthal about the FBI files matter?
14 A No.
15 Q Have you spoken to Sidney
16 Blumenthal about Judicial Watch, Larry
17 Klayman machine or anybody related to the
18 organization?
19 A No.
20 Q Have you spoken to Sidney
21 Blumenthal about Livingstone and Marceca?
22 A No.
96
1 Q Have you spoken to him about
2 Hillary Clinton?
3 A I'm sure her name has come up at
4 times in conversations.
5 Q Have you spoken to him about
6 Bernard Nussbaum?
7 A No.
8 Q Number 12, "Any and all records,
9 correspondence, notes, communications or
10 other documents concerning or relating to
11 communications to or from Rahm Emanuel
12 concerning or relating to the access to and
13 disclosure of FBI background investigation
14 files or summary reports on former Reagan and
15 Bush administration appointees and employees
16 or others."
17 A I don't have any. I searched. I
18 don't remember when.
19 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.
20 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
21 Q Thirteen. You tell me if you
22 response is different than your previous
97
1 responses and we'll move it along. Take a
2 look at 13.
3 A Not different. Same answer.
4 (Counsel conferred with
5 witness)
6 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
7 Q What did your counsel just whisper
8 in your ear? You didn't request advice, did
9 you?
10 MR. BRAND: Sometimes the client
11 doesn't know he needs advice, Larry, but he
12 does. That's what a professional lawyer is
13 to do at a deposition.
14 MR. KLAYMAN: Whisper in the
15 client's ear when a question is being posed?
16 MR. BRAND: No, that's not what I
17 was doing. I was talking to my client.
18 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
19 Q Number 13?
20 A Already asked and answered.
21 Q The response is the same?
22 A (Nodding)
98
1 Q Fourteen, "any all records,
2 correspondence, notes, communications or
3 other documents concerning or relating to
4 comments made by George Stephanopoulos on the
5 ABC Television News Program "This Week With
6 Sam Donaldson and Cokie Roberts," broadcast
7 on February 8th, 1998, said comments,
8 including but not limited to the statement by
9 Mr. Stephanopoulos that and there's a
10 different long-term strategy which I think
11 would be far more explosive. White House
12 allies already starting to whisper about what
13 I'll call the Ellen Rometsch strategy."
14 Do you have any notes that you have
15 taken with regard to that statement?
16 A I don't have any. If I did, I
17 wouldn't give them to you.
18 Q Why wouldn't you give them to me?
19 MR. BRAND: Because I think those
20 are protected under his journalist privilege,
21 but since he said he doesn't have any, we
22 don't have to get into that.
99
1 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
2 Q Did you search for those documents
3 before you came in here today?
4 A Yes.
5 Q When did you search for them?
6 A After I got the subpoena.
7 Q Do you have an office here at ABC
8 in Washington, D.C.
9 A I sometimes use a phone, but I
10 don't have a office, no.
11 Q Do you take notes before you go on
12 ABC each week on this week's show?
13 A Not always.
14 Q Sometimes you do?
15 A Sometimes I do. Sometime I don't.
16 Q Where are those notes stored?
17 A I don't store them and some what I
18 view, for good reason, they're quite
19 afemrile.
20 Q Afemrile?
21 A Afemrile.
22 Q What do you mean by that?
100
1 A It's -- you know, it's just
2 topical. There's no reason to store them.
3 Q Are you saying you throw them out
4 or do you keep some of them?
5 A Generally, if I keep any of them --
6 I mean if I keep any of them, I can't even
7 remember if I keep them, I might keep them
8 for a day or two and then I throw them out.
9 I don't have any notes on that.
10 Q Do you give them to anybody at ABC
11 to store?
12 A No.
13 Q Do you have a file cabinet at ABC
14 where you keep your things?
15 A No.
16 Q Any receptacle where you keep your
17 things?
18 A Mostly garbage can.
19 Q Are you writing a book,
20 Mr. Stephanopoulos?
21 A Sure.
22 Q When did you first decide to write