OIS Cases FileGate Exhibits 36-01
Number of Pages:6
Date Created:August 17, 1999
Date Uploaded to the Library:July 30, 2013
Autogenerated text from PDF
middot;"',}:':..,.:.::;-: COMMITTEE GOVERNMENT REFORM AND OVERSIGHT U.S. HOUSE REPRESENTATIVES WASHINGTON, D.C. the matter of: WHITE HOUSE TRAVEL: DEPOSITION JEFF UNDERCOFFER Wednesday, July 10, 1996 Washington, D.C. The deposition the above matter was held Room 2203, Rayburn House Office Building, commencing 10:10 a.m. Appearances: Staff Present for the Government Reform and Oversight Committee: Barbara Olson, Chief Investigator; Barbara Comstock, Special Counsel; Laurie Taylor, Investigator; Donald Goldberg, Minority, Assistant Counsel; Daniel Hernandez, Minority Professional Staff Member. For JEFF UNDERCOFFER: WILLIAM CLANCY, ESQ. THEREUPON, JEFF UNDERCOFFER, of36 7/28/99 11:31 l"'..,. ........ -... ---- witness, was called for examination Majority Counsel, and after having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified follows: Ms. Comstock. just have short statement giving background the investigation before start. Some not going apply --I mean, maybe good bit may not --but just give you idea, overview what are looking at. are the record this morning for the deposition Jeff Undercoffer from the Secret Service, which being administered under oath. name Barbara Comstock, Majority investigative counsel. With today Barbara Olson, who our chief investigative counsel, and Laurie Taylor, who attorney the Majority staff, and Don Goldberg and Dan Hernandez are Minority staff. would like provide you with some background information concerning this investigation and your appearance here. Pursuant its authority under Rules and the House Representatives, the Government Reform and Oversight Committee investigating the White House Travel Office matter and related matters. This refers all events leading the May 19, 1993 firings the White House Travel Office employees and includes all information provided the White House Travel Office and any employees the White House Travel Office any time from January 1st, 1993 the present. Our investigation also encompasses the activities Harry Thomason, Darnell Martens and Penny Sample the White House well allegations wrongdoing concerning Travel Office employees. The committee investigation reviewing all actions taken any Division field office the FBI and Department Justice, both prior and after the firings, well issues relating the White House's receipt FBI background investigations prior administration officials. The investigation includes, but not limited to, the investigation and prosecution U.S. Billy Ray Dale and all investigations and subsequent reviews the Travel Office firings any agency including, but not limited to, the White House Management Review, all FBI and Justice Department reviews, the IRS and Treasury Department internal reviews and records, the GAO Review, well the proposed U.S. House Representatives Resolution Inquiry. think particular the White House Management Review discussed length the White House passes and those type matters. you understand that your answers should not --I'm sorry, should not exclude any information which you recall involving these subjects? The Witness. Yes. Ms. Comstock. The committee has been granted the specific authorization conduct this deposition pursuant House Resolution 369, which was passed the House Representatives March 1996. can get the rules for you you would like have copy them for you today. The committee counsels will proceed with equal rounds questioning, each lasting hour. will alternate. will just questioning one time. you have any questions for counsel, you want rephrase question, just ask you don't understand are going along. You are here today voluntarily and not subpoena; that correct? The Witness. That's correct. Ms. Comstock. Okay. You will given 5-day time frame which you can come with your attorney for the Secret Service and review your deposition once has been transcribed, and correct any technical problems that you perceive occurred the transcription, and clarify any matters. After that review period, you will asked sign the transcript. you have any questions before start today? The Witness. No. EXAMINATION MS. COMSTOCK: you could just tell your position the Secret Service and how you became involved reviewing the FBI files matter? Okay. The FBI file matter. No, agent assigned the White House Division. have been assigned there since January 1994 that this whole matter regarding the FBI background files and the production access lists are generated Division. That how involved. Could you describe the analyses that you have done the lists? you have general discussion that you could provide for us? not have general discussion; probably 10-minute presentation. involves charts. They are very visual, along with have some definite numbers, you would like just through it. Why don't through that, just you can tell what you have done your review the files. Okay. may? QYes. Mr. Goldberg. With the charts think you have descriptive possible. Deposition Jeff Unden:otter t..J;1.ll .,, oUt .......... o-. I-------- The Witness. will descriptive possible, and then will provide copies these also. have two charts, and the genera! --as part analysis, what began looking was did we, did the United States Secret Service, provide the White House Office Personnel Security any time during 1993 list that showed the majority these people from the list that you have here? the same list have. have been given --first will start saying have been given two lists. One was longer than the other. There total 476 names them. The two lists have one name common, and that can't remember the guy's name particular. Ms. Comstock. Okay. Why don't make that list Exhibit here can refer throughout the deposition. [Undercoffer Deposition Exhibit No. was marked for identification.] MS. COMSTOCK: Exhibit the list, the initial list 300 plus names that was initially released the White House, and then also have the second list, which believe you referred attached part Exhibit which has additional number names. Actually, maybe should clarify before start with the charts that the first list 300 names was the initial list provided the White House, believe, June 7th, provided the public. The second list was provided week later, and the White House has represented that this list did, fact, contain something names that actually were properly -they were active, and the files were properly sought; that your understanding? names. Okay, 89. And the reason the second list came about, have been told the FBI, because they noticed that there were more names the series that Mr. Marceca; that correct? don't know. can only speak the fact that was given the long list, the short list. Okay. will refer these lists that have the combined numbers that you are talking Exhibit and this particular copy, Exhibit has the deactivation dates all the people the list also Okay. /28/99 :31 --as provided, understand, the Secret Service. Okay. will call Exhibit charts refer the list 476 because combined, there 476 individual names the list. Okay. took two views this information, and used the WAVES information --because our WAVES system produced the access lists. noticed that, looking the deactivation dates these individuals, that the individuals were not active any time prior, from 1989 and back. 1989 was the Bush-Reagan transition, and that when our E-PASS system came line. They chose bring line the transition. That where went from paper pass the hard pass. hard card. has microchip it, and each one has individual number it. those people were never active the E-PASS system. They were they had been issued paper passes previous administrations, and never pass through the E-PASS system. Now, move August 1991. have --we have historic WAVES records. may refer notes, have --we have historic WAVES records where have printout dated August 7th 1991 listing inactive passholders. that printout list, WAVES printout, lists all inactive passholders from August 7th, 1991 backwards. And that printout, 182 those 476 names from Exhibit are included that printout. have another printout generated WAVES May 2nd 1993. That printout active passholders, active passholders employed White House operations personnel. From that printout was able deduce --and will get more into how the numbers break down when come the second chart --but from that printout was able deduce that 368 individuals the 476 were inactive passholders May 2nd, 1993. Then have very similar printout dated July 8th 1993. Again, that printout showing all inactive passholders employed White House operations personnel, which the overwhelming majority these 476 were. There were three individuals that were not. They were employees the residence. But anyway, 379 the individuals from the 476 from Exhibit would have been inactive passholders July 8th. Now, look the information from another have just been referring the chart entitled "lnactives11 WAVES from the list 476. And you can provide with small copy that can make that part the deposition? will provide small copy that. Thank you. And the purpose this graphic representation the information that very easy visuaf!y see that the White House Division the Secret Service did not provide list with 476 people those individuals from Exhibit active, because they were, fact, inactive. And then would the the people having been there correctly, would that then added the 379? 379 --we will add this together when Okay. When look this information, look two ways. look deductively and inductively, coming two different approaches. helps keep thoughts straight. The numbers can get very confusing, and helps keep thoughts straight. take closer look this information Mr. Clancy. Why don't you reference the title. The Witness. Okay. 11Pass Deactivations from the List 476." Working until 1989, find that from the list have called Exhibit one individual has not worked for any administration since 1984; two individuals since 1985; four individuals since 1987; three since 1988; and since 1989. And that brings -again, individuals have left, according our records, 1995. 1991, individuals have left. And again, printout, the printout have showing -and will submit this you. have the printout dated 8-7 1991, and attached have key, alphabetical key, referencing the file numbers, because the printout file number order. But 182 individuals from the list 476 that are calling Exhibit are listed this printout that says 11WAVES inactive passes." there way post-August 7th, 1991 that they were printout reproduced that said they were active. Our records also show that 1992, people left and were consequently made inactive. Now, January 1993, and have historic WAVES document, this printout produced the WAVES system, and dated -and what shows MS. COMSTOCK: That dated what? January 28th 1993. What this shows are all those passholders who became inactive the month January 1993. There were individuals from Exhibit the list 476 people, included this printout.