51
1 want to ask the questions. You're going far
2 beyond any legitimate assertion of
3 attorney/client privilege here.
4 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
5 Q I'm going to show you what has been
6 provided to me by your counsel this morning
7 called Response to Plaintiffs' Notice of
8 Deposition Duces Tecum to Mr. Tom Janenda,
9 and we'll just take a two-minute break so we
10 can make copies of that.
11 Going off record at 9:57 Eastern
12 Standard Time.
13 (Recess)
14 VIDEO TECHNICIAN: We're back on
15 video record at 10:02 a.m.
16 MR. KLAYMAN: Eastern Standard
17 Time.
18 VIDEO TECHNICIAN: Eastern Standard
19 Time.
20 MR. KLAYMAN: I showy you what I'll
21 ask the court reporter to mark as Exhibit 2.
22 (Janenda Deposition Exhibit
52
1 No. 2 was marked for
2 identification.)
3 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
4 Q Showing you Exhibit 2, Mr. Janenda,
5 take an opportunity to look at this and tell
6 me if you've ever seen it before, Exhibit 2,
7 Response to Plaintiffs' Notice of Deposition
8 Duces Tecum to Mr. Tom Janenda?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 Q When did you see it?
11 A Over the course of yesterday and
12 this morning.
13 Q Did you review the contents of this
14 document?
15 A Yes, sir.
16 Q Who did you review it with?
17 MS. GILES: You can answer.
18 THE WITNESS: With my counsel.
19 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
20 Q Did you approve what's written in
21 this document?
22 A Yes, sir.
53
1 Q Let go back to Exhibit 1. You see
2 where after the first page, first it notes
3 your deposition and then it says, "Exhibit A,
4 Instructions"?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q Did you yourself review the
7 instructions and then the following
8 definitions as to what constitutes a document
9 in terms of being able to produce information
10 here today?
11 A Yes, sir.
12 Q Who did you review that with?
13 A Myself and I believe at some point
14 counsel.
15 Q What is your understanding of what
16 constitutes a document in terms of producing
17 information to Judicial Watch?
18 A Whatever definition I've read in
19 here.
20 Q Well, I want you to tell me now
21 what your understanding is. Please don't
22 look at it. I just want to know what you
54
1 understand right now.
2 A I'm not a lawyer. I read it, you
3 know. I paid attention to it. You know, I
4 don't know, I mean, anything about documents,
5 as defined in your material that I read
6 carefully.
7 Q Tell me what your understanding is
8 that you had to produce?
9 A All of the material that is
10 requested in this document.
11 Q How is the document defined,
12 roughly speaking?
13 A Anything I produced in my computer,
14 anything that's in my files, anything that's
15 in my E-mail. I mean I read this carefully
16 and that's my recollection of what it is.
17 Q Did you go through each document
18 request one by one?
19 A Yes, certainly I reviewed them,
20 yes.
21 Q And did you search for document
22 requests one by one? For each request did
55
1 you search for documents?
2 A I mean I believe I -- yeah, I mean
3 I did not -- on the advice of --
4 MS. GILES: Don't talk about the
5 advice your counsel gave you, but other than
6 anything counsel said to you --
7 THE WITNESS: I went through -- I
8 spent a great amount of time going through
9 looking for responsive documents.
10 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
11 Q Did anyone help you to look for
12 responsive documents?
13 A No, I searched myself. And to be
14 clear, I also, for sake of time purposes in
15 getting through all the material, I had -- I
16 asked on people on my staff to also search
17 their own files and directories so that I
18 could answer for my office.
19 Q Who did you ask to search your
20 files and directories.
21 A Everyone in my office, my staff.
22 Q Who was that?
56
1 A Glen Weiner, Robin Bachman.
2 Q How is that spelled?
3 A B-A-C-H-M-A-N.
4 Q And what's her position?
5 A Researcher.
6 Q Who else?
7 A One other person who just started
8 this week, Rajiv Mody.
9 Q M-O?
10 A D-Y.
11 Q D-Y. And what's his position?
12 A Junior research.
13 Q Are you the head of office?
14 A Correct, of the communications
15 research office, yes.
16 Q That's the formal name,
17 communications research office?
18 A Correct.
19 Q Is there anyone else that works in
20 that office?
21 A No, sir, other than interns.
22 Q What interns have worked in that
57
1 office over the last year?
2 A I couldn't begin to tell you.
3 Q Do you remember any of them?
4 A I don't. Again, beyond some first
5 names, I couldn't tell you.
6 Q Let's hear the first names.
7 A Claire is the only one I remember.
8 Q Do you know if she's still there?
9 A I believe she is, yeah.
10 Q Do you remember her last name?
11 A I do not.
12 Q How long have you been head of that
13 office?
14 A Since, I would say, mid summer of
15 last year, 1997.
16 Q Who was the head of the office
17 before that?
18 A Ann Walker.
19 Q Is there an E at the end of Ann?
20 A I don't believe so.
21 Q Where is she located today,
22 professionally speaking?
58
1 A She works at the White house.
2 Q What's her position?
3 A I couldn't speak for her. I
4 believe she's in communications. That's all
5 I know.
6 Q Who does she work for in
7 communications?
8 A Communications director.
9 Q Who is?
10 A Ann Lewis.
11 Q What are her duties and
12 responsibilities for Ann Lewis?
13 A For Ann Lewis?
14 Q For Ann Lewis.
15 A I can't answer for her.
16 Q Based on your knowledge.
17 A To my knowledge, she's the
18 communications director for the President --
19 for the office. She runs the office of
20 communications.
21 Q Ann Lewis?
22 A Correct.
59
1 Q But what does Ann Walker do for Ann
2 Lewis? What are her duties and
3 responsibilities?
4 A I don't know. I don't work with
5 her. I don't know what her responsibilities
6 are.
7 Q Now, tell me who had what division
8 of responsibility between you, Robin Bachman
9 and Rajiv Mody to look for documents
10 responsive to Judicial Watch's Notice of
11 Deposition Duces Tecum, which is Exhibit 1.
12 How did you divide up the responsibility to
13 search for those documents?
14 A I did the bulk of it myself. I
15 personally reviewed all of the hard files and
16 all of my own personal electronic files and
17 --
18 Q What hard files did you review?
19 Just your computer?
20 A Hard files are not, to my
21 definition computer files, so, no, I wouldn't
22 say.
60
1 Q What I'm trying to say, did you
2 have a meeting with these people where you
3 divided up who was going to do what aspect of
4 the document search?
5 A No, sir.
6 Q How was it conveyed as to who was
7 to do what?
8 A As I said, I anything that was
9 office wide files or hard files or my own
10 personal files I reviewed myself and -- and
11 then I asked Robin Bachman and Rajiv to
12 search their own electronic files and hard
13 files for information without explaining.
14 Q Did you finish?
15 A That was it.
16 Q How do you define a hard file?
17 What is a hard file?
18 A My definition of a hard file is a
19 piece of paper or something that exists that
20 you can pick up.
21 Q Where are those files kept in the
22 office?
61
1 A Throughout the office.
2 Q Are there specific filing cabinets?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Whose filing cabinets are they kept
5 in?
6 A I don't understand the question.
7 Q Are the filing cabinets assigned to
8 a particular person in the office or are they
9 for general use?
10 A The majority of them are general
11 use.
12 Q And where is your office located?
13 What's the number of the room or rooms where
14 it's located?
15 A Suite 197 of the Old Executive
16 Office Building.
17 Q Is there more than one office in
18 that suite?
19 A Yes, sir.
20 Q Who has offices in that suite?
21 A Myself, Robin Bachman, Glen Weiner,
22 Ann Walker and Brenda Costello.
62
1 Q So Ann Walker, even though she
2 works for Ann Lewis, has an office in your
3 suite?
4 A Correct. In Suite 197, correct.
5 Q And who is the last person you just
6 mentioned? Ms. Costello?
7 A Yes.
8 Q What is her position?
9 A I couldn't really answer for her,
10 as to what her position is. I don't know.
11 Q Well, based on your understanding,
12 what does she do?
13 A I don't know what she does. I
14 don't. I mean to my knowledge, she works for
15 the First Lady.
16 Q In what capacity?
17 A Again, I -- you're asking me to
18 speculate on what someone else's job is?
19 MS. GILES: What does she --
20 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
21 Q No, I'm not asking you to speculate
22 and, besides, you can speculate. This is
63
1 discovery. It doesn't mean it's coming into
2 evidence.
3 I'm asking you based upon what your
4 understanding is why is she there in that
5 suite?
6 A She works for the First Lady. I
7 can't say. I don't know.
8 Q And you have interaction with her
9 from time to time, do you not?
10 A I say hello. I know her. I pass
11 her in the office and we exchange
12 pleasantries, yes.
13 Q What's the name of your suite?
14 A 197.
15 Q And what's the formal title?
16 A I don't know that there is one.
17 There may be. I don't know if there's a
18 plaque on the door or outside the door, but
19 it's, basically --
20 Q Have you ever asked why is
21 Ms. Costello here?
22 A No.
64
1 Q Now, you sometimes share with
2 Ms. Costello don't you?
3 A I can't remember an occasion where
4 I did, no.
5 Q Others on your staff share
6 information with her, do they not?
7 A No, not to my knowledge, no.
8 Q So you have no idea why she's
9 sitting in your suite?
10 A No. As I said, she works for the
11 First Lady. Beyond that I don't know what
12 she does.
13 Q Does she have access to the
14 computers in the suite?
15 A She has a computer. She has her
16 own computer.
17 Q Let me give you a piece of paper.
18 If you could configure for me how the suite
19 is set up, if you could just draw a rough
20 diagram.
21 A Do you have a pen?
22 Q If you will draw the suite and the
65
1 offices and then put the name of the person
2 in each office. If there are people sitting
3 out in common areas, please record where
4 their desks are located with their names.
5 A I'm not much of an artist.
6 Q This is just for informational
7 purposes.
8 Can I see that, please?
9 Thank you.
10 Is there a sign on the door outside
11 of Suite 197 that lists what the name of your
12 office is?
13 A There may well be. Maybe something
14 that says communications research. I don't
15 recall. There are three separate room
16 numbers, but the only door that is used is
17 the 197.
18 Q Now, Tom, that's your name, right,
19 Janenda?
20 A Correct.
21 Q Can I write that in there? Tom J.,
22 Janenda. I will put a little initial next to
66
1 it.
2 Robin, that's Robin Bachman?
3 A Correct.
4 Q How is that spelled again?
5 A B-A-C-H-M-A-N.
6 Q Glen is Glen Weiner?
7 A Correct.
8 Q Brenda Costello, she works for the
9 First Lady?
10 A Correct.
11 Q And A. Walker is Alice Walker?
12 A Ann.
13 Q Ann Walker.
14 Now, is there anybody sitting out
15 in the common area that you've just --
16 A Yeah, that's common space. That's
17 where -- if there are interns, at that point,
18 that's where interns would be.
19 Q Are there desks out there?
20 A There are -- yeah, there's some
21 desks.
22 Q Can you draw in the desks and who
67
1 sits in those desks?
2 A No.
3 Q If you don't know, just put
4 generically intern.
5 A Sure.
6 Q I'll ask that that be marked as
7 Exhibit 3.
8 MS. GILES: How about Rajiv? Is he
9 sitting there?
10 THE WITNESS: Oh, right. Sorry.
11 Rajiv is actually over here where --
12 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
13 Q So you've just wrote intern,
14 intern?
15 A And to correct, I apologize, I did
16 not write in where Rajiv sits because he is a
17 new employee and I forgot to put him in.
18 Q Rajiv sits in between Brenda
19 Costello and Ann Walker?
20 A Right.
21 Q And the intern Claire, she's in one
22 of these intern desks?
68
1 A Correct.
2 Q Now, do any of these people in this
3 office, do they have computers?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Who has computers?
6 A I have a computer. Glen has a
7 computer.
8 Q Robin, does she have one?
9 A Robin has a computer.
10 Q Brenda Costello has a computer?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Ann Walker has a computer?
13 A Correct.
14 Q And the interns have computers at
15 their desk?
16 A And Rajiv Mody has a computer and
17 there's -- I would be guessing. I don't
18 know. There's one or two computers for
19 intern use.
20 Q For who?
21 A For intern use. Sorry.
22 Q Now, these computers, are they on
69
1 some kind of network?
2 A I'm sure they are. I don't know
3 much about the system, but, yes.
4 Q Are they wired into a --
5 A Oh, no. I'm sorry. Are you asking
6 me are they all in that suite connected
7 together? I don't know what you're asking
8 me. Sorry.
9 Q I will ask you that first. Are
10 they connected together?
11 A Again, I'm not an expert on the
12 network at the White House. I don't know.
13 Yes, they are all, to my knowledge, on a
14 network, but, no, they are not -- Ann Walker
15 is not connected to the research computers.
16 Q Let's talk about your computer
17 first. What can you access on your computer
18 other than word processing that you put on
19 your computer? What kind of data bases can
20 you access?
21 A There's all kinds of -- White House
22 computer system. I have my own Word Perfect,
70
1 there's an E-mail system, there's a Netscape
2 or Internet access. There's -- would you
3 clarify your question? I don't understand
4 what you're asking me.
5 Q I'm asking you are there White
6 House data bases or other data bases that you
7 can communicate with to call up information
8 on your computer.
9 A You have to define White House data
10 base. I mean there's, generally, a White
11 House computer system, but I don't know what
12 you mean by a data base.
13 Q Is there a repository of any kind
14 of information that you can access from your
15 computer?
16 A It's just so broad of a question I
17 don't --
18 Q Mr. Janenda, I know you've been,
19 you know, 12 hours with counsel, but I'm
20 trying to talk simply --
21 A I'm trying to understand what
22 you're asking me.
71
1 Q As a layperson here, so I couldn't
2 make it simpler than that.
3 A Oh, I think you could. Data base,
4 I mean there's so much -- in today's age
5 there's --
6 Q I didn't ask you data base. I
7 asked you can you access any kind of
8 information from your computer?
9 A Yes.
10 Q What can you access?
11 A E-mail, Word Perfect, numerous
12 computer programs, Nexis is a computer
13 program and -- to the best of my knowledge,
14 I'm not sure still if I know what you're
15 asking me, but that's what I have on my
16 computer.
17 Q Well, let me ask it in very simple
18 language. Can you turn your computer on?
19 A Uh-huh, yes.
20 Q Can you access information from any
21 source other than E-mail and Nexis?
22 A I'm not trying to split hairs with
72
1 you. I just don't want to -- I'm sure that
2 what I have -- there's All In One, which is
3 a -- which is the old E-mail system that has
4 like the wires on it. I have access to the
5 wires.
6 Q What are wires?
7 A Like the Associated Press wires,
8 U.S. News wire. Various -- whatever
9 applications Microsoft or whatever, you know,
10 that's what I have access to on my terminal
11 in my computer.
12 Q Are there any information data
13 bases in the White House that you can access
14 that were created by the White House?
15 A I don't -- no, I don't believe so.
16 It's such a broad thing. No, nothing that
17 jumps to my mind.
18 Q Does that mean no or you just
19 cannot remember?
20 A It means I still think that that is
21 a vague definition of is there a data base in
22 the White House --
73
1 Q Well, the reason you ask vague
2 definitions is because you want to be able to
3 cover things. It's a simple question.
4 Are there any data bases in the
5 White House that you can access from your
6 computer?
7 A Again, you can't define data base.
8 I've already described to you the ones that I
9 know of. I guess that's my answer. Those
10 are the only White House sources of
11 information on line on my computer that I can
12 think of that I have access to.
13 Q Have you ever heard of a data base
14 called WhoDB?
15 A I have heard of it, yes, sir.
16 Q Where did you hear of it?
17 A In press accounts.
18 Q Can you access WhoDB from your
19 computer?
20 A No, sir, not to my knowledge, no.
21 Q Do you know of anyone who can
22 access WhoDB from their computer?
74
1 A I know nothing about WhoDP while
2 I've been an employee of the White House, no.
3 Q Are there any other types of data
4 bases, and I'm using that for identification
5 purposes, in the White House that you can get
6 into from your computer or anyone in your
7 office, in that whole suite?
8 A I don't think there -- I don't
9 think there are. I'm not trying to be
10 evasive. I just -- I can't think of anything
11 but -- computer data base is such a broad
12 definition these days. I'm really not trying
13 to split hairs with you.
14 Q The reason it's broad is because
15 you want to make sure you cover things.
16 A Right, and I'm -- I'm telling you
17 --
18 Q You are aware that being under oath
19 means telling us everything you know.
20 A I'm absolutely aware of that.
21 Q You are aware that this is just a
22 deposition.
75
1 A I'm absolutely --
2 Q It doesn't mean that what you say
3 is ultimately going to be ruled admissible
4 evidence, but we're entitled to discover to
5 see what it is that you know so that we can
6 follow the leads. You know that, right?
7 A Yes, sir, and I'm doing me best to
8 answer your question. I know of no other
9 White House data bases that you're -- that I
10 would have access to.
11 Q Are you able to access any data
12 bases at places other than the White House
13 such as the Pentagon or any other government
14 agency?
15 A No, sir, not that I'm aware of. I
16 mean unless you're talking about -- you know,
17 I'm trying to be honest here. Like I can get
18 on the Internet at the White House site and
19 connect to the Department of Labor on their
20 public Web site. I can connect to, you know,
21 the Small Business Administration and their
22 public Web site or something like that. But
76
1 I do not know of any other connections to
2 anything. Sorry.
3 Q Has anyone in your office created
4 any type of data bases?
5 A No, I don't believe so.
6 Q You're not sure?
7 A Mr. Klayman, I don't know -- the
8 term "data base" is such a broad -- I mean a
9 computer -- a Word Perfect document that's in
10 a table format, like you might consider that
11 a data base. I'm aware of no data bases that
12 have been set up in my office.
13 Q Yes, I would consider that a data
14 base.
15 A Okay. You know, is there a Word
16 Perfect table document that's been created in
17 my office?
18 Q Yes.
19 A There may be. I would not want to
20 rule -- I would want to rule that out.
21 Q What's been created?
22 A I'm simply telling you my problem
77
1 with your definition of data base. I'm not
2 aware. I'm sure that there are.
3 Q I take it you've asked somebody at
4 some time why is Brenda Costello in our
5 suite? You obviously have asked somebody why
6 is she here?
7 A No, I have not. I am aware of the
8 fact that she works for the First Lady and --
9 Q You're head of the office, right?
10 A I'm head of the communications
11 research office, correct.
12 Q And the suite that Ms. Brenda
13 Costello shares with you is the White House
14 communications office, correct, research
15 office?
16 A Because there's a -- there may be a
17 plaque on the outside of it, yeah. There are
18 other people in that office beyond people who
19 work for communications research.
20 MS. GILES: If you're going to be
21 using that document as an exhibit, could we
22 get a copy?
78
1 MR. KLAYMAN: Sure.
2 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
3 Q Are you telling me that you, as
4 head of the office, you have never asked why
5 Brenda Costello is there?
6 A I'm telling you that I am aware of
7 why she is there. She works -- she's been in
8 that office before I was hired at the White
9 House. She works for the First Lady. I've
10 never felt the need to know more than that.
11 Q Is she there to keep track of what
12 you and your staff are doing?
13 A Again, to the extent that I can
14 testify as to what her job is, I know she
15 works for the First Lady and that's about all
16 I know. I have no reason to believe that
17 that would -- that would seem to be --
18 Q I take it you've never asked
19 anybody, that's your testimony, why she's
20 there, correct?
21 A Correct. I mean I may have -- no,
22 I have -- I'm aware that she works for the
79
1 First Lady, so I wouldn't have asked someone.
2 Q Is there a sign on that suite that
3 says First Lady's office or anything to that
4 effect?
5 A On the suite?
6 Q Outside, you know, where it's
7 listed.
8 A Not to my knowledge. To my -- and
9 I gave you a vague recollection. There may
10 be a communications research sign on the
11 outside. So I don't believe there are any
12 others, no.
13 Q Does she have a separate key to her
14 office? Is her office locked?
15 A I don't know. I don't have any
16 knowledge of.
17 Q Have you ever been given any
18 instructions about security in that office
19 given the fact that the First Lady has
20 someone working there?
21 A Have I ever been given --
22 Q Any special instructions as to how
80
1 to deal with security by virtue of the fact
2 that you have an employee that works with the
3 First Lady in your suite.
4 A No, sir.
5 Q Have you ever been told not to
6 speak with Ms. Costello by anyone?
7 A No, of course not.
8 Q Have you ever talked to her?
9 A Yes, absolutely.
10 Q You talk to her frequently,
11 correct?
12 A I bump her into the office,
13 certainly. We talk, we exchange
14 pleasantries, how was your vacation, you
15 know, personal conversations.
16 Q And surely you must ask her from
17 time to time what are you working on?
18 A No, I can't recall that doing that.
19 There's no reason that I shouldn't, I'm just
20 saying I don't recall it.
21 Q You don't know what she's doing?
22 A No, that's your characterization.
81
1 My testimony is that I don't know what she
2 does for the First Lady other than she works
3 for the First Lady.
4 Q Did you ever ask her who do you
5 work for?
6 A I don't -- I don't recall having
7 done that. I think I was -- just I was aware
8 of it when I was moving into the suite of
9 offices and I was going to get three offices
10 and there were already two offices in there,
11 Brenda works for the First Lady, Ann Walker,
12 who is remaining in the office, works in
13 communications.
14 Q Now, as your duties and
15 responsibilities of head the communications
16 research office, shouldn't you know what
17 people are doing in your suite?
18 A I'm responsible for the people on
19 my staff, certainly.
20 Q You wouldn't let Larry Klayman come
21 into your suite, would you?
22 A If you were cleared by the White
82
1 House and -- I would assume that you were
2 there to have a meeting with Ann Walker or
3 Brenda Costello.
4 Q Have you ever received notice that
5 Mr. Costello was cleared to be in your
6 office?
7 A No.
8 Q Ann Walker, did you ever ask her
9 what she does and why she's in your office?
10 A No. I am, generally, aware that
11 she works on the communications staff and I
12 have had meetings occasionally, like
13 communication staff meetings in the morning
14 for 15 minutes, I know she's on the
15 communications. But I don't -- I don't think
16 I've discussed with her what her
17 responsibilities are.
18 Q Who answers the phone for
19 Ms. Costello if she's not in the office at
20 the time?
21 A I don't know.
22 Q Who answers your phone if you're
83
1 not in the office at the time?
2 A We have -- my phone?
3 Q Yeah.
4 A It goes to voice mail. I don't
5 have anyone who answers my phone. There's a
6 main research line that an intern or someone
7 else on the staff would answer.
8 Q Does anyone take telephone messages
9 for Ms. Costello? Do you ever see a
10 telephone message book where you record when
11 someone called and put --
12 A No, sir, I've not seen --
13 Q Do you use such a book?
14 A No, sir.
15 Q So the bottom line is you don't
16 have a clue as to what Ms. Costello does?
17 A No, and you're mischaracterizing
18 what I said. I am well aware that she works
19 for the First Lady. I do not know anything
20 about the details of her workday or what --
21 what work she's doing.
22 Q I take it you have seen the First
84
1 Lady in your suite from time to time?
2 A No, I have not.
3 Q Have you ever met Mrs. Clinton?
4 A I'm sure I have on one or two
5 occasions at, you know, large White House
6 events.
7 Q Have you ever talked to her about
8 any of the things you're working on?
9 A No, sir.
10 Q Did you ever talk to the President
11 about things that you're working on?
12 A No, sir. Basically, Merry
13 Christmas is about the extent of my
14 conversation with them.
15 Q Has anyone in your office?
16 A No, not to my knowledge. I think
17 if anyone was in my office were going to be,
18 it would be me and, no, I was not.
19 Q Have you ever been invited to the
20 White House residence?
21 A I believe only on one occasion.
22 Q When was that?
85
1 A It was a 60th birthday party.
2 Q For who?
3 A Ann Lewis.
4 Q You know Ann Lewis pretty well,
5 don't you?
6 A Professionally, sure, I work for
7 her.
8 Q Your time in working for the White
9 House, how long have you worked there in any
10 capacity?
11 A February 1997. Since February of
12 1997, late February I believe.
13 Q Do you know of anyone having been
14 invited to social functions in the residence
15 who doesn't know the person that is subject
16 to that social function?
17 A You'd have to rephrase that. I
18 don't know what you're asking me.
19 Q I mean, you just can't walk into
20 the residence, can you, for any old party,
21 can you as a White House employee, based on
22 your knowledge?
86
1 A Again, I don't know what you're
2 asking me.
3 Q What I'm saying is you were invited
4 to the residence for Ann Lewis' 60th birthday
5 party, to the best of your knowledge, because
6 you knew her pretty well, correct?
7 A Yeah, although there were probably
8 60 people there or something.
9 Q But is it fair to say that just
10 because you work at the White House doesn't
11 mean that you can go to a birthday party for
12 Ann Lewis in the residence? You have to be
13 specially invited, right?
14 A Yeah, that's fair.
15 MR. KLAYMAN: Let's take a
16 five-minute break. And my appointment for
17 lunch was postponed, so we won't have that
18 issue.
19 MS. GILES: Oh, good.
20 VIDEO TECHNICIAN: We're going off
21 record at 10:35 Eastern Standard Time.
22 (Janenda Deposition Exhibit
87
1 No. 3 was marked for
2 identification.)
3 (Recess)
4 VIDEO TECHNICIAN: We're back on
5 video record at 10:47 Eastern Standard Time.
6 THE WITNESS: Mr. Klayman, if I
7 might clarify something.
8 MR. KLAYMAN: Yes.
9 THE WITNESS: Regarding Brenda
10 Costello. I -- she is -- to my knowledge,
11 the only thing beyond the fact that she works
12 for the First Lady, she, to my knowledge,
13 prepares her briefing book, her daily like
14 trip briefing book as to who she's going to
15 be -- you know, whatever the briefing book
16 consist of. My general knowledge would be
17 who is greeting you at the airport, whose
18 home you're going to, that kind of
19 information, and I -- if I didn't understand
20 the question.
21 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
22 Q Well, I think you understood the
88
1 question, but did you talk to your counsel
2 during the intermission here before you
3 decided that you wanted to tell me that?
4 A I personally made the decision
5 before I walked out the door that I was going
6 to say this.
7 Q During this break did you talk to
8 your counsel?
9 A Before I talked to my counsel I --
10 I don't know what I'm trying to get to -- I
11 informed them that I wanted to clarify
12 something for the record.
13 Q When did this thought come to you?
14 A Well, I couldn't understand why
15 there was such a great interest in some of
16 the questions, so I got -- I was thinking
17 about it and that's -- I wanted to clarify
18 the record.
19 Q Let me clarify something, too.
20 Are you giving me responses based
21 upon what you think my motivation is in
22 asking the questions?
89
1 A No, sir.
2 MS. GILES: There's no need to
3 badger the witness. He's trying to be
4 complete.
5 MR. KLAYMAN: I'm not badgering.
6 That's what he just said.
7 MS. GILES: He's trying to be
8 complete.
9 MR. KLAYMAN: That's what he just
10 said.
11 THE WITNESS: It's not what I said.
12 MR. KLAYMAN: That he couldn't
13 figure out my motivation, so when he finally
14 did, that's when he came up with this
15 response.
16 THE WITNESS: No. What I'm saying
17 is I didn't -- I'm trying to answer as fully
18 as I can and the fact that my answer wasn't
19 good enough led me to rethink and try to pick
20 my brain better.
21 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
22 Q But you did talk to counsel during
90
1 the intermission?
2 A I told them -- I informed them --
3 MS. GILES: Don't tell him what you
4 told us.
5 THE WITNESS: All right.
6 MS. GILES: But you can clarify
7 whether you said --
8 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
9 Q How did you learn that Ms. Brenda
10 Costello handled the briefing book for Mrs.
11 Clinton?
12 A Part of my -- that's what my -- the
13 extent of my knowledge, she works for the
14 First Lady. She does the briefing book.
15 Q Who told you that?
16 A I just couldn't tell you. It's
17 just something that is known. I mean she did
18 the briefing book.
19 Q Have you seen her doing the
20 briefing book, observed it?
21 A I've seen her run out of the office
22 at 8:00 o'clock delivering something that was
91
1 the briefing book. That's the extent of it.
2 Q But you didn't know that was the
3 briefing book?
4 A I don't know. I'm not clear on
5 what you're asking me.
6 Q Well, how did you know what she's
7 carrying out of the office at 8:00 p.m. is a
8 briefing book?
9 A Because --
10 Q How do you come to that knowledge?
11 A Just generally known she works for
12 the First Lady and she prepares the briefing
13 book. I mean there are --
14 Q But you don't know specifically
15 that what she leaves with at 8:00 p.m. is a
16 briefing book, correct?
17 A Did I read it? Is that what you're
18 asking me?
19 Q No, whether you know. I can't make
20 questions more simple than this.
21 A I did not read what -- what it is
22 that was described as the briefing brook. We
92
1 have to -- you know, I have to get it to the
2 First Lady by 8:00 o'clock.
3 Q I'm asking whether you knew it was
4 the briefing book.
5 A Beyond taking her at her word or
6 something, no.
7 Q So she's told you that that's what
8 she was carrying, was the briefing book?
9 A I'm sure that's probably happened
10 on occasion, yes.
11 Q So you have communicated with her
12 about what she does, correct?
13 A In passing her in the hallway or
14 her coming out of her office, you know,
15 hello. How are you? I'm great. I've got to
16 get this over there before X time or
17 something, generally, like that. That's the
18 extent of it.
19 Q And she said I've got to get this
20 briefing book to the First Lady?
21 A Right. I'm not -- and to be clear,
22 I'm sure that that has happened. I couldn't
93
1 tell you a specific occasion, but that is the
2 general nature of, you know. Any
3 conversation I've had with her about it.
4 Q Did you ever go to lunch with her?
5 A No.
6 Q Did you ever have coffee with her?
7 A No.
8 Q Did you ever go into her office and
9 talk to her for a bit?
10 A I'm sure that's happened, yes.
11 Q She has a chair in her office other
12 than the one she sits in?
13 A I believe she does, yeah.
14 Q And you've sat down and rapped with
15 her for a little bit from time to time?
16 A I'm sure I said hello, how are you,
17 that kind of thing.
18 Q And surely you must have said what
19 kinds of things do you do?
20 A No. This is there I mean I
21 think -- no, I have not had that conversation
22 with her.
94
1 Q Does she have a filing cabinet in
2 the office of hers? Surely you must have
3 observed one.
4 A I -- honestly I think she has a
5 bookcase. I don't know whether she has a
6 file cabinet.
7 Q Does she keep storage of documents
8 or other types of things elsewhere in the
9 suite?
10 A She has -- I believe she has a
11 bookcase on the wall facing outside of her
12 office, but the wall of her office there's a
13 second, best of my recollection, a second
14 bookcase.
15 Q A bookcase or a file cabinet?
16 A Bookcase.
17 Q I'm talking about does she keep
18 documents in that bookcase?
19 A My -- I believe she has binders is
20 my recollection.
21 Q She keeps copies of correspondence
22 in the binders?
95
1 A I don't know what she keeps in the
2 binders. They're binders.
3 Q Have you ever opened up any of
4 those binders?
5 A No, sir, I don't believe so.
6 Q Has anyone else?
7 A Has anyone else?
8 Q That you know of?
9 A I -- I couldn't say. That I know
10 of, no.
11 Q Are there procedures in your office
12 for storing and documents, computer disks and
13 other things, for retaining them, storing
14 them?
15 A The communications research office?
16 Q Yes.
17 A You'd have to clarify a little bit.
18 Yes, I believe there are.
19 Q What are they? What procedures do
20 you have?
21 A Within our office --
22 Q Yes.
96
1 A -- we have, you know, sort of
2 establishing where certain things are kept I
3 guess I would say.
4 Q Are there written instructions on
5 where to keep things?
6 A Within my office, no, I don't
7 believe so, no.
8 Q You're the one that conveys to the
9 staff where to keep things?
10 A Or among -- I mean it's a small
11 staff, so it wouldn't just be like myself
12 dictating them. It would be someone else
13 saying let's keep CQs here.
14 Q Tell me what is stored in your
15 office currently.
16 A Catalog? You have to be more
17 specific.
18 Q I can't be more specific than that.
19 A What is stored in my office.
20 Q What is stored in your office?
21 A In general terms, I have a -- in my
22 office --
97
1 Q Not just your office, but in the
2 suite itself.
3 A I was trying to -- you asked me
4 about my office.
5 Q That's fine. Take it in the order
6 you want.
7 A There's a file cabinet in my office
8 which contains information that comes in from
9 like newsletters and public policy papers
10 from specific organizations.
11 Q What organizations?
12 A A host of organizations.
13 Q Name some.
14 A The Heritage Foundation, the
15 Brookings Institute, the -- no -- Domestic
16 Policy Council or DPC from up on Capitol
17 Hill. I mean just a variety of newsletters
18 and policy papers that come to the office we
19 keep them by organization.
20 Q Do you routinely store materials
21 printed off the Internet in that file
22 cabinet?
98
1 A No. To the best of my
2 recollection, that's -- I'm not saying it
3 isn't possible that there is something
4 printed from the particular groups that's in
5 there, but, as a general practice, that's
6 information that comes in the mail.
7 Q What else information is in the
8 file cabinet?
9 A That's about it. I think that's
10 all that's in there.
11 Q Now, tell me what else is kept
12 either in your office or throughout the
13 suite, what is kept and maintained.
14 A I have a small bookcase next to my
15 desk that has various books that either I've
16 loaned from the OEOB library for speeches
17 that I'm trying to help with research on,
18 also some personal books that I own that are
19 sort of historical facts and figures type
20 books. I have a credenza behind the unit
21 that has got one -- one small file drawer in
22 it that has, generally, like the things I'm
99
1 working on, those types of files. And that's
2 pretty much, I believe, all that's in my
3 office.
4 Q What things are you working on
5 right now?
6 A What things am I working on right
7 now.
8 Q That you would keep in that
9 credenza.
10 A I have a number of files related to
11 a nomination that I'm working on.
12 Q Nomination of who?
13 A James Hormel, Ambassadorial
14 nominee.
15 Q To Luxenberg?
16 A Correct.
17 Q What else?
18 A I believe there's a couple of files
19 on the vacancies act, there are a couple of
20 files on -- what else? I -- I can't recall
21 what else. I'm sure there are other files in
22 there, but off the top of my head I can't
100
1 recall what they are.
2 Q Do you have files on Bob Barr?
3 A No, sir, no where in the office.
4 Q Do you have files on Richard Mellon
5 Scaife?
6 A No, sir, no where in the office.
7 Q Do you have files on the American
8 Spectator?
9 A I don't believe there are files.
10 I'm sure -- we get the magazine, so I'm sure
11 there are copies of the magazine, but there's
12 no files. I personally looked through the
13 files and there are no files in our office.
14 Q The suite you're talking about?
15 A In the -- the research -- again,
16 the suite is divided. In my -- any of the
17 people in my staff or our file cabinets there
18 are no such files.
19 Q Files on David Hale?
20 A No, sir, not anywhere in the
21 office.
22 Q Files on Newt Gingrich?