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Judicial Watch • Transcript from background interview with Marl Boal and Katherine Bigelow

Transcript from background interview with Marl Boal and Katherine Bigelow

Transcript from background interview with Marl Boal and Katherine Bigelow

Page 1: Transcript from background interview with Marl Boal and Katherine Bigelow

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Number of Pages:16

Date Created:May 21, 2012

Date Uploaded to the Library:October 30, 2012

Tags:Marl, Bigelow1, McRavens, Gates, Boal, McRaven, Katherine, Morrell, Transcript, interview, background, Chairman, Friday, people, White, Pentagon, security, president, Secretary, White House, FBI, CIA


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Transcript from background interview with Marl Boal and Katherine Bigelow
(15 Ju12011)
Mike Vickers
Phil Strub
Mark Boal-
Bob Mehal-
Katherine Bigelow Katherine going somehow figure out how turn disorganized screenplay into terrific
movie and great recreation ofthe events since last talked, just catch you up, speak, what have been doing. took your guidance
and spoke the and had good meeting with Brennan and McDonough and plan follow with
them; and they were forward leaning and interested sharing their point view; command and control; that was great, thank you. met with Acting Director Morrell today Langley and continued talk various people the IC.
MY-This was follow-up? Youve met with him before correct?
MB- Yes correct; this was follow-up. intel stuff going great and pretty well along that, before talked with you; but lets say
between and base that. The stuff, think good shape well, the last leg ofthe
stool obviously DoD. thats what, hopefully can talk about some that here, but wanted
give you sort inside baseball.
One the things had talked about was eventually will going, hopefully going, down SOCOM
and talking somebody down there maybe McRaven whoever-still the horizon.
MY-I have some news for you that front. So, and have you talked Sec Panetta the Director,
though.
MB- Yes.
MY-I know very interested supporting.
MB- Were going have dinner some point, but didnt want interrupt travel plan
Mghanistan.
BM- Part ofthat discussion was from the last movie.
MV- sorry, what?
BM- Part those discussions, were reference the movie they were planning making.
MY- Yes, okay; but know interested and supportive.
MY-So from the 000 point view, here what can do, first off just give you some context; the
people who were involved, were very few, put them categories: You had the very, very top
the Pentagon, Secretary Gates, the Chairman, the Vice-Chairman ofthe Joint Chiefs and
initially, and that was sort the first four and then ADM McRaven was actually number five (who
becomes the Operational Commander) and then you have the cast operators and planners. And then,
the only other two DoD people, who end getting involved from the senior point view are
colleague the Under Secretary for Policy, Michelle Flournoy; reasonably later the game like maybe
month six weeks before (something like that) and then our General Council, kind the very end one issue; but thats the senior level. And then, Adm Olson, toward the very, very end, the
SOCOM Commander, Admiral McRavens Boss, and then the rest are really planners operators. And
that, just give you the context.
MB- Weve talked about this before, because brought dinner with few Army Generals that
know and said Gen Casey, give some stuff this and said didnt know (shit) and said Gen
Corelli, common Pete tell something and said thats Title believe meant Title SO) and
didnt know anything about it.
MY- that literally the roadrnap. now here what were going for you, least for now.
With me, will try forthcoming can, but you are going get little bit operational stuff
but more really policy, like how did make the decision, the risks, that kind stuff. But then the
other people that are really central this obviously are Secretary Gates, Adm Mullen, Hoss Cartwright; that regard, are all kind the same boat you will, but thats between you and them about
them talking you.
MB- Gates short list; again...hes got lot his (inaudible)
MY-He did the minutes thing, know you said down the road after retired, and try get him...
MB- Give the guy break.
MV- Give the guy break, but thats between you and him now that retired. What cant promise
you really the DoD senior level, whether Ill ifthere will few others, but wanted
give you the roadrnap.
MB- Dh-huh.
MV- Ive been told for you what Michael Morrell and others, thats what going try
for you tonight and others. Now the operators side; Adm McRaven and Adm Olson not want
talk directly, because its just bad, their just concerned commanders the force and theyre telling
them all the time dont you dare talk anybody, that its just bad example gets out even with
all sorts restrictions and everything.
MB- Vb-huh.
MB- Ill take someone like that.
MY- Well the basic idea theyll make guy available who was involved from the beginning
planner; SEAL Team Operator and Commander.
MY-Aguynam
would want so, basically can probably give you everything you
son Adm McRaven.
MB- Thats dynamite the way.
KB- Thats incredible.
MB- This happy.
MY- And so, hell speak for operators and hell speak for senior military commanders, because their all
the same tribe and everything, and you should get most what you need from him. Now, again the
reason Adm Olson and Adm McRaven didnt want talk this command conflict interest. And
then with only thing ask that you not reveal his name any way consultant,
because agam, sesame thing, shouldnt talking out school, this least, this gives him one
step removed and knows what can and cant say, but this way least can open can
with you and ought meet your needs and give you lots color.
KB- Fabulous
MB- Thats dynamite.
MY-So well put you touch with him have him get touch with you the end this meeting.
And whatever your schedule well make that work, just havent had chance talk with him.
KB- located the Washington area?
MV- Hes the Washington area. travels some, but when get out ofhere can try arrange
that. OK? So, thats it.
MB- Thank you very much!
KB- Thats incredible
MB- You delivered.
MB- you have some time, can throw few questions you?
MV- do.
MB- Well take 10-15 minutes?
MY-I could stay much minutes. apologize for keeping you waiting.
MB- dont want suck all your time, but greedy.
MY- But you want come back, but youre here, know you traveled, whatever, the time yours.
MB- Just very general sense, there obviously momentum coming from the agency, talking
about the month leading this raid, there momentum coming from the agency that this seems like
something that going worthwhile target something with, right? You have the Presidents
stated intention make catching OBL one his priorities. you look back when youre first
hearing about this and even going into Feb and Mar; and asking you this because you navigated
many, many Washington sort complicated joining different forces. Did this feel like inevitable
outcome? dont mean helo borne B2, but that something was going done, did seem you
when you first heard about this that something was going done was that inevitable sort outcome was there moment many moments where you felt like, God could see this thing going either
way, could see the agency spending another six months collection this another year?
MY- Sure.
MV- when really get the intelligence break that locates the person this compound, which
late August I0, then, the frrst thing that this huge intelligence break and biggest secret the
government. First going try put context into this and tell you how come into this and how
felt about it, then, try answer your question. You probably got this from CIA, but all the people
who worked this hard for many years, then they know, initially think, wow, Ill give you own
perspective this this period, this the biggest intelligence lead weve had decade, but this
point still fundamentally intelligence problem and incredible secret. through the end
2010 basically, this period okay, who have tell this point. the President, Vice
President, National Security Advisor (Brennan), McDonough, etc. but handful people the White
House, literally just five, six people and then, the four talked about here Defense, and Director
Panetta making all these decisions consultation with the White House, you know the Secretary, the
Chairman, Vice Chairman and me, and then the DNI and thats kind for while. And its, okay
this unbelievable, its big secret keep working; thats generally peoples reaction, after the
jaw dropping moment, and then number have been intensively focused this for long time,
but after had gotten glimpse ofthis guy year earlier and then lost him. remember specifically,
vividly, the time that glimpse, wholly crap are something and then man lost
him. Cause was clear this guy might lead something big. But then how going get him
again? This mirage that popped one time and was gone two seconds, but now had least one
location for fleeting moment time, then months later when now got him lot more finitely
and got him location fix, then its own reaction was right the time was bah
years work got lucky year later and now got the son-of-a-bitch and lets see where goes
and there was enough initially that there was something there, but wasnt clear that was actionable. the idea, still intelligence problem, continue work the intelligence problem. least from
own perspective, yah you start think: about things, but the first thing you got develop the
intelligence and everybody else pretty much that mode. The other thing would want convey
you its extremely closely guarded, but also the pace this point kind ofdevelopment every
month couple weeks something its not the intense pace that comes later. yes, there the
Presidents guidance, but thats still more the back the mind this point, ones decided
anything any kind except try develop the intelligence picture better.
PS- Excuse me, but after the intelligence you received Aug last year, the group, and there was such high degree confidence identification, was there shift from this uncertainly, more well
now this set, now its matter the nuts and bolts continuing collect intelligence that would
lead towards the possible action outcome.
BM- The way you laid out the phases yesterday was really good.
MV- Again, what would say its big deal and its incredibly big secret, thats closely held.
guess what would say that interactions with all the people CTC and everything was okay,
What else have learned? How are moving this along? What else need that refme
the picture? But talk among the inner circle about what this means, really isnt until early the
year where start thinking okay need develop options, and then Bob was reminding
about the First phase kind intelligence development from the last four months of2010. Now
this mind like nothing else, just speaking for personally, but its slower pace. Then,
coming back from the holidays January, had real sense you know are shifting into new
phase and are going develop options and then that Second phase kind okay well now
are pretty sure got something here, but not sure anyone wants anything that its good enough anything about, but lets start developing what could do. the way that proceeds fIrst
tiny little group, mostly CIA, and me, and then this one Navy Seal this point who given
Adm McRaven, but the fIrst step really all just CIA. So, January, they internally come with fIve options, various ways could this, with the governments assistance, without, and various
operational means, but any event, theyre very broad courses action. You can kind this way with them without them, but literally basic very broad descriptions this sounds plausible, sort 50,000 foot level; and then that takes another month okay some these look plausible, some
maybe less so, debate them, and think about how want refIne them. But then think, Panetta
decides, need bring Adm McRaven, and thats roughly about mid-Feb.
MB- And thats specifIcally for the helo version this?
MV- Thats for his portions, but his portions are lot variants theme; dont want into
real specifIc details, Ill leave that the SEALs but again you can with the PAKs, without,
bigger force, smaller force, this way, that way, and but any event number those
would have involved him, not all the courses action, but number. And the desire first bring
him injust him and nobody else and then okay now what need from you is, heres how are
going proceed, need planner, one guy help flush out few these with CIA, but ifthat
then looks promising and decide are going down this path then well bring more people help
flush out even more. Its all kind sketched out talked him, kind sketched out here where might need this thing, this thing the next month two just notionally.
MV- Then the next phase that would describe; that sort takes from Valentines Day essentially mid Mar; then mid-Mar where you then swing into now these phases become parallel this
point but you from Intelligence (keeping the big secret), concept develop (broad course action
development) little more refInement and then now mid March you start series Presidential
meetings and senior White House meetings theres fIve meetings with the President between mid-Mar
and the end Apr and multiple meetings with Brennan, Morrell and and others Cartwright and
McRaven. And that then becomes okay Which options like better? Which paths you start down? Are going this sooner rather than later? Are going this all? Nobody going make that decision until they have to, but are going it, when want
ready sooner rather than later, which options, ground air, with the Paks, without, you dont rule things out, but you start sorting more and fIgure okay these few going
develop probably heading down this path, and theres period kind initial Presidential guidance
that results in, want this sooner rather than later, probably unilateral, but havent decided
it, but want keep options open, any plausible option want look at. there still more
than one option. And planning teams then are told develop their things further, basically March,
the second half March and those are presented the White House and flushed out and refIned and
refined and refmed. One air option rejected and replaced with another and then that one carries
through the end but ultimately not decided on. this point, again given your experience... And air meaning airstrike... Right, understand, meaning more precise version. Are you, your 25,000 view, hey
were moving toward action here, that something going happen, cant put money helo
borne the precision strike, something, but were moving toward something? Thats what
trying ... again you start then sort ... could have still been nothing? Well still could have been nothing. But guess, say, from the turn the year on, where
started intensely engaging every week concept development, because that was when the decision was
made okay lets start thinking about how were going this. Then, from mid-Feb on, became very,
very intense; okay time call Adm McRaven, and got bring, and doesnt know any this
stuff for six months, and bring him speed, and heres what want from you, and intense
series White House meetings through March. then, mid-March when the meetings with the
President start and sort six weeks period get the decision and narrowing down the decision;
becomes increasingly intense and that there now pretty high probability might something,
other words might not, might delay, might choose this that but this now moved into
lets develop really serious options.
MB-Uh-huh And said, that winnowing peoples opinions, change about what the majority favors, initial
reaction like this and end doing something else, they initially werent too wild about what
ended doing. Youre talking about the White House? No, not just the White House, but senior policy makers senior policy makers. You know,
opinions shifted things got examined much greater detail. You could for something
conceptually, because sounded simple and elegant and its going the job, but then when you
examine and all the ramifications you say, that doesnt look good take that offthe table. sounds good until you think. ofthe collateral damage? Among other things, but lots reasons that what looks good initially, may not good after.
What will happen when you cant prove that you got the guy, etc... then number issues... what
will happen relationship afterwards. Again, were trying keep every viable option the table. one air option goes away, another gets substituted and then that planning team totally separate
group, very tiny group, but theyve got brought into this, couple people, and plan all this
with different instrument. But meanwhile, were narrowing down Adm McRavens options;
refining and refining his plan and then the end March early April, narrow down essentially
two options and with target the end April that window that was actually done very, very late
April very early May. CIA had the great foresight building mock-up ofthe facility; started
that actually January, before had decided anything and even bring Adm McRaven, and was ready when the time came that that was going viable option. And then early April,
probably the second third... think. met with the President mid March and then the end March
and the other three meetings were April, including right before, couple the week before. any
event, then basically, okay these two options, still not sure are going this, but sooner rather
than later, target the end the month, well make the decision the end the month, but proceed
were doing get ready. that point then... What was the other option aside from the Helo borne assault that was the table? airstrike one form, but not.... But not the B2? Not the B2. then, swing into high gear bringing basically all the operators and planners who are
actually going for the air option doesnt require lot, requires handful people plan for
the ground option, that actually did, required not only the people who executed the mission but all
sorts staff and the end ofthis thing had gone from, not counting CIA, you exclude CIA think. there were like eight nine people outside CIA, who actually knew about this last Fall... not
counting the Intelligence Community, because theres some NSA, NGA couple, but not lot.
order ofClA, NSA, NGA, but the policy makers talked about was very, very small and then theres
few that are added toward the end, mentioned the DoD side but the Secretary State couple
weeks before, the Attorney General, Homeland Security, the FBI, thats all the weekend and ... And Secretary State brought in, that partly because there concern about embassies and
State should really have heads-up that their embassy might get stormed Monday? Yes, but also National Security policy maker, you are going something like that she
has major vote whether you not, the President going turn her immediately and say
should this not, but then there all this stuff... but again the problem then even the end
there only handful people these organizations that know about it, you have answer those
kinds questions from the very the top. You dont have all your bureaucracy work with; you got
Secretary, and Deputy, person who worries about security and maybe Ambassador, but thats it. youve got transmit this okay prepared this, plan, well for policy making, and
again, dont want speak for her anybody else but myself. But the SEALS and JSOC, Adm McRavens organization, now have start doing rehearsals and
doing detailed planning and everything else, that starts April; 7-8 April and another big one the
week after that, what call full mission rehearsal where youre doing everything, flying, not just what
youre going the target, but how you get the target, and the time takes and everything,
realistic conditions can do. Adm Mullen and flew out West for that watch that full profile
and flew back, and.... the way, when you saw it, you thought this going work this pretty cool? Yes. mean was big change just week practicing just seeing doing the mock-up
facility versus the whole thing, enormous, enormous change from the first time you try Ive done for week straight and now, putting all the pieces together... Oh, thats interesting Even for these experts, its kind crawl, walk, run, youre watching crawl the first time and
then walk, and the end theyre running, its almost what its exactly going look like two weeks
later. Then after that done, back the policy making side that goes over six weeks. probably late
April, 18-21 April theres another meeting with the President and thats the decision, well still havent
decided this and havent decided which option going do, but could one ofthese
things two weeks, and want ready and then theres the decision posture the force, and
that has take place kind the week prior. And people get deployed, now again, not lot ofpeople
know about this this point, people are being told right as, hey guess what some guys are going
show your country and you the four star commander probably ought least know about this,
but thats probably all you need this point. Then theres the final decision go, which made the
Thursday/ Friday before that Sunday Friday morning actually, but Thursday night was the last big
meeting with the President and Secretary Gates and the Chairman. guess the period between the 15th March 20-something March, cant remember, guess around the second meeting, around
the end March, the 28th March; between that period, theres going confidence Adm McRavens
mission option and then would say that builds they rehearse and get results and the plan gets
refine and you make changes it; still not comfortable how you are going this, things bad how are you going get out? Okay, got your guidance, now got plan that, now got
come back and show you that, okay now like that and confidence rises, but even that point
said, thru sort ofmid April the end April there are divided views among the deputies and the
principals whether this, which way it, and again theres more people shifting toward Adm
McRaven, but still divided camps maybe half one side and half, goes from more people,
overwhelming majority favor option that ultimately never even made the end maybe half
and half some point, the very end becomes more say (or maybe little more than
that) favor Adm McRaven, but there are some people who recommend dont all, dont
anything, youve got choose the one that dont end doing, that why the common
story that this intelligence ten years the making, real remarkable story over the last year last ten
months piecing together and then Special Operations both planning and adaptive execution, because
what they the target wasnt their primary plan and had change couple ways and hardly
looked like did, but also why Secretary Gates and others said gutsy decision the President.
Again, had very senior people telling him dont this Mr. President. mean had majority who
said did (sic) it, but still incredibly gutsy decision; and people passionately arguing for another course ... you know senior advisors. understanding you liked the helo from the beginning let say that you were early
adapter that; can you... Well view keep all your options open, everything, this what started with because
there pros and cons everything and then continue refine and analyze theres innumerous details
you have got work out, like okay, with this Adm McRaven option what with the
body? Who notify afterwards? That takes lot time, work out all those details and then you
start thinking this good idea and then you think its not good idea, going this way and
eventually ended where did, but took awhile. yes, would say the end March was
clearly Adm McRavens camp; said was early adopter and persuaded others, but, the end
there was strong majority both the deputies and the principals. And your reasoning for that based on...?
MY-One, felt more and more confident that had really good plan, that could actually get
and could... But you would say that the principal thing that you got the body?
MY- Yes, that was the dispositive, all the critical things that could wrong, and there some
operation risk, but the critical strategic and political things that could wrong, really revolved around,
they werent operational questions, they were could prove this and the end the day; and could
that and then also too, once you had enough confidence that you could potentially get and out
undetected, then there was the question What ifhes not there? Then obviously ground raid looks
lot better than air strike when youre not killing people you dont need to. there hes not there and nobody dies theoretically and well wonder what the hell hapPened, but
there was reasonable probability that could... and also too there might reasons keep quiet;
which one the reasons did through the CIA the end ofthe day; could have done with
the Secretary charge rather than dual relationship. Lets say the worse thing, they there...? So, this whole thing about (85) Percent down forty, let just talk about that for second... Youre talking about the range views the probability that actually there? Yes, yes, because mean... You already told you thought that.... basically, just safety check, the National CounterTerrorism Center, Mike Leiter, and
company are brought very late the game, like two weeks before, and the poor guy was getting
married the day before, ruined/cancelled his honeymoon and other stuff. But first hes told here the
big secret the government and the second thing volunteers have red team just reassess
the intelligence, because NCTC kind completes terrorism intelligence with CIA. And so, any
event, they bring some analysts from CIA but also from DIA and others NCTC and they this red
team and they try come with all alternative hypotheses and everything else, and one ofthose guys
was Forty Percent, now that was still very strong, but was kind naysayer, and then the
others were 60-70, but also People like Morrell were 60; some ofthe others CTC were the camp, considered myselfin the camp, but was saying 80, 40, its still the same evidence its
circumstantial case and you know thats why its gutsy decision the President. Lets say.... Now would say the inte!.
MB-Okay... The number people, who they were, where they were, was all 100 percent spot on, 100 percent
spot on. The identities people and where they were, which house, which floor, etc. was all spot on. that was pretty good. Now, there were few other surprises, like all the crap had that took off
the target and others and few other things, but you couldnt know that advance...
KB-Right. You couldnt know was there and turned out probably stronger than... They understated...
MV- Yes. Now let ask you hypothetical? Lets say the worse case happens during the raid there
firefight the SEALs get pinned down they shoot their way, your mind terms worst casing this,
what the worst possible strategic... are war with Pak..., could that happen? What the worst
outcome here the raid? Well... Obviously the guys die; but mean terms the big strategic picture the country? one, mean having lots ofmessy things bad; having helicopters crash big fear... Well mean, say guy comes out from the neighborhood shoots RPG, they shoot back,
turns out ... Yab, you get Blackhawk down something, where things just terribly bad the objective route the objective, mean its less problem because that point you dont know where
you are going but you are still violating somebodys territory, but again, depends, long can get the
force out, and then just got wreckage you know Desi Arnaz,I got some splaining do,
Lucy does, whatever is; but less bad, than Ive just got bunch ofpeople dead and stuff
the objective; and the worst case where you actually have big fight with the Pakistani Security
Forces, critical consideration is, say one, what ifhe not there; can get and out,
essentially surgically, without killing anybody without them really knowing was there; good
probability that but not hundred percent. And then second, got there and things were little
messier than thought, can least extract myself before they really bad. say had again
downed helicopter, got think, could get everybody out there and just... rather than holed
the Alamo and then Ive got negotiate their way out something, thats where really turned bad And did you game out what happens there big fight with Pak Security Forces? Yes, but tried develop plan
before they could react under any ....
sat that would avoid that, which would get out well And you had high confidence? had high confidence could that. being able assess their ability, given what you knew about quickly they could.... Yes, knew where everybody was and what their likely reaction times were and had enough
redundancy that were confident that could get out ifwe had and lot protection, and turned
out didnt need any ofthat. Was there turning... You mentioned the January period sort like one these transitions
between... January being sort transition between phase one and phase two you described
them, there... know there was that November phone call where the intercept says still working
for the same brothers before? Yah, gives you higher confidence you build the case, but again part the period, the reason
divide that way you know, other than okay Mr. President were going tell you this big secret; and
okay, well continue develop and keep informed, okay keep you informed; isnt until mid
February when its, even really with the President mid... mean kept advised Donilon and
Brennan and stuff. but really isnt until mid March when okay, lets assess the strength this case.
thats when you are really putting together and youre refining that, you know, why you have
confidence this, what are plausible alternative explanations, what more can you collect
narrow the uncertainty, which again, worth delaying, what going get try this this to...
you know, there are all these discussions going about try convince that this really what
you think and not something else, and then secondarily, convince ofyour plan, which option the right one. But, theres period between mid March, and would say, early April where you are
still trying make the case, you can look back evidence like hey got this and got this, but
took more than that took, even piece evidence consequential its well how can test this
hypothesis that its not some drug lord whatever you know what would see ifthat were the
case fitting all the evidence.
K.B Hum, Right. Could communicating with his supplier something like that? Yah, right; its someone else, number two something else. there lot that but the
end the day once gets very refined and theres not additional opportunities for collection without
risk, then its, okay what you make ofit. what is; and then what you make the plan
plans, which one you like. thats where ended up. Great, yes. You got fifteen more minutes you want, but you ask Ive been talking too much, ahead.
MB-No,no. Youve been incredible. Youve been great. (to KB) did you? you asked the one that was curious about what happened... The Pak... Obviously part the challenge for capture how difficult this was because
there version that hindsight, just looks like fell into place, right so, that why just
wanted ask you hypothetically about what could have happened wrong, because makes more
dramatic when all goes right guess would say that even though there was majority the end that felt the same way did,
strong majority, that ought the raid for the variety reasons; get the body because dealt
with all the bad contingencies the right way and could it. And felt ought it, many
others did too, the very end there was still wonder, are going with option option are going delay further and just collect more intelligence and you know hindsight you could see the
President was extremely determined move this as... when was ready move it, fast humanly
possible and not take any chances that would leak out anything, from Mar May 1st, mean
that, hindsight like April 1st; was very clear what was going do, but wasnt clear April
MB-Right. So, the next morning when decided, 100 percent Friday morning; had our last big meeting
with him Thursday night and then the inner White House circle Saturday mom... Friday moming,
issued the order and stuff like that, and still didnt know which way was going go; mean high
probability thought would the way did, but you say things look clearer hindsight then
they actually were the time. Uh~huh, Uh-huh. And was part the reason that you didnt the more surgical strike just not
having much confidence that technology working was again going back the verification
issue? Its mixture; once you get away...once becomes surgical then youre less worried about
killing lots people that you didnt mean kill, but then theres the issue number one, did really
get guy and.. opposed hes just tunnel somewhere... Yab, just you missed. Like had abort for some reason route the target, without
crashed helicopter, they never would have been the wiser. very strong very high probability that
could have gone three quarters ofthe way, turned around come back and tried again... couple weeks later... month later... month later... and you needed everything, temperature and those sorts things, but mean you
could have had second chance. you did the raid the target would spooke~ them; even
was there others were there, whatever missed for some reason you probably dont get second
chance. But clearly you strike and miss, youre done. Even the security forces dont figure out,
the guys who are there clearly figure out and the same thing, you kill the wrong person, any kind miss youre finished. Its one shot. And then, said the trouble okay, did get him but really
didnt know was him 100 percent, and now how can prove it, afterwards, what say, what
do, mean how know that really did get him, even have high confidence think did.
MB-Uh-hum. And then, you have the diplomatic problem what the hell are you doing bombing country;
even its with small bombs and only few people something, there any women... the idea that
you could get just him and not someone else dashing out, because theres kids and women periodically
with him and stuff like that... Was the idea that you would literally just strike the third floor?
MV-No. So, was take the whole building? No, not the whole building, but try get just him ifpossible. But probably wasnt possible get just him. again, there series things that make that risky both strategic and tactical. But
again, there were some people who were for it, but let them speak for themselves. extraordinary, just extraordinary. very intense period. Yah; well thank you for taking the time. Well again, with some ofthis, provided you dont drop bombs, its repeatable and thats what
attracted some people it. could fly over.... But why would you pull them back the middle the flight? What are you going find out
midnight Sunday? Because, the period that you might there, the limited window, may not available and that sense you could try again, but the other hand, once you drop that bomb you dont get try
again. And then even you hit him you dont know that you have strategic success and that
ultimately the problem. should have
reach out you or? Ill call him, however you want play it. take your guidance...and very grateful. And whats your schedule look like? leave early Wednesday morning and back Los Angeles but could come back ... Because going off AfghanistanlPakistan Sunday. well try arrange it, ifhes here, before Wednesday; and ifnot well least establish
mechanism where you guys can work out. Okay; thank you, have good weekend. wonderful meeting you.