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Judicial Watch • JW v State Heather Samuelson deposition 01242

JW v State Heather Samuelson deposition 01242

JW v State Heather Samuelson deposition 01242

Page 1: JW v State Heather Samuelson deposition 01242

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Date Created:June 27, 2019

Date Uploaded to the Library:June 27, 2019

Tags:heather, cotca, samuelson, Brewster, 01242, Clintons, deposition, DHS, Benghazi, Hillary Clinton, White House, State Department, FBI, DOJ, FOIA


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Planet Depos Make Happen
Transcript Heather Samuelson
Date: June 13, 2019
Case: Judicial Watch, Inc. -v- U.S. Department State
Planet Depos
Phone: 888.433.3767
Email:: transcripts@planetdepos.com
www.planetdepos.com
WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTING INTERPRETATION TRIAL SERVICES
Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019 THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT COLUMBIA BEHALF PLAINTIFF:
RAMONA COTCA, ESQUIRE
JUDICIAL WATCH, INC.,
LAUREN BURKE, ESQUIRE
ERIC LEE, ESQUIRE Civil Action No.
JUDICIAL WATCH, INC.
425 Third Street,
Plaintiff,
U.S. DEPARTMENT STATE, 14-01242 (RCL)
Defendant.
Suite 800
Washington, 20024
(202) 646-5172
Videotaped Deposition HEATHER SAMUELSON
Washington,
Thursday, June 13, 2019
STEPHEN PEZZI, ESQUIRE
10:10 a.m.
U.S. DEPARTMENT JUSTICE
FEDERAL PROGRAMS BRANCH
1100 Street,
Washington, 20005
(202) 305-7583 Job No.: BEHALF DEFENDANT:
230029 Pages 261 Reported by:
Debra Whitehead
Videotaped Deposition HEATHER SAMUELSON,
held the offices of: BEHALF DEFENDANT:
ELIZABETH SHAPIRO, ESQUIRE
PLANET DEPOS
U.S. DEPARTMENT JUSTICE
1100 Connecticut Avenue,
CIVIL DIVISION
Suite 950 Massachusetts Avenue,
Washington, 20036
Washington, 20530
(888) 433-3767
(202) 514-2205 BEHALF THE WITNESS:
HAL BREWSTER, ESQUIRE
BRIAN STEKLOFF, ESQUIRE Approved Reporter the United States District
CALI COPE-KASTEN, ESQUIRE Court and Notary Public the District Columbia.
WILKINSON WALSH ESKOVITZ
2100 Street,
10th Floor
Washington, 20036
(202) 847-4000 ALSO PRESENT:
Pursuant notice, before Debra Whitehead,
JEREMY DINEEN, Video Specialist
PLANET DEPOS
888.433.3767 WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019
EXAMINATION HEATHER SAMUELSON
EXHIBITS MARKED TODAYS SESSION CONTINUED
PAGE Ms. Cotca Mr. Brewster
256
Dated 11/11/14 from Mr. Visek Ms. Duval
DEPOSITION EXHIBIT
Exhibit
EXHIBITS MARKED TODAYS SESSION
(Retained Counsel) The Honorable Trey Gowdy,
PAGE
With Attachment
Exhibit
FBI 302, Heather Samuelson
208
Exhibit
12/5/14 Letter from Ms. Mills
211
DEPOSITION EXHIBIT
Exhibit
Deposition Civil Action
Exhibit
DOS_00005170_0002
Exhibit
12/3/14 E-mail from Mr. Fischer
EXHIBITS MARKED PRIOR SESSIONS
(Retained Counsel) DEPOSITION EXHIBIT
1/27/16 Letter from Mr. Grassley Finney Exhibit The Honorable John Kerry
PAGE
Notices
EXHIBITS MARKED TODAYS SESSION CONTINUED
DEPOSITION EXHIBIT
Exhibit
DOS_00000896_0002
Exhibit
E-mail String, Bates Nos.
DOS_00000901_0005
Exhibit
E-mail String, Bates Nos.
119
DOS_00000899_0001
DOS_00000899_0004
Exhibit
E-mail String, Bates Nos.
DOS_00000902_0001
DOS_00000902_0005
118
DOS_00000901_0001
108
DOS_00000898_0002
Exhibit
E-mail String, Bates Nos.
DOS_00000898_0001 Mr. Samuelson
Exhibit
E-mail String Ending with E-mail
Dated 12/27/12 from Ms. Walter
DOS_00000896_0001
PAGE
E-mail String, Bates Nos.
251
216 Ms. Grafeld Mr. Johnson
Exhibit
Kennedy
Exhibit
E-mail String Ending with E-mail
Dated 12/11/12 from Ms. Mills
203 The Honorable Patrick
E-mail String, Bates Nos.
DOS_00005170_0001
Organization-Careers Printout
From state.gov
Exhibit
Subpoena Testify
3/27/15 Letter from Mr. Kendall
146
Exhibit
PAGE
E-mail String Ending with E-mail
125
PROCEEDINGS
VIDEO SPECIALIST: Here begins Disk Number the videotaped deposition Heather Samuelson the matter Judicial Watch, Inc., the U.S. Department State, the U.S. District Court for the District Columbia, Case Number 14-01242.
Todays date June 13, 2019. The time the video monitor 10:10 a.m. The videographer today Jeremy Dineen, representing Planet Depos. This video deposition taking place the offices Planet Depos, 1100 Connecticut Avenue, Northwest, Suite 950, Washington, DC.
Would counsel please voice-identify themselves and state whom they represent.
MS. COTCA: Ramona Cotca, for the plaintiff.
MS. BURKE: Lauren Burke, for the
plaintiff.
MR. LEE: Eric Lee, for the plaintiffs.
MS. SHAPIRO: Elizabeth Shapiro,
PLANET DEPOS
888.433.3767 WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019 behalf the Department State and the witness her capacity former State Department official.
MR. PEZZI: Stephen Pezzi, from the Department Justice, also behalf defendant the Department State, and behalf the witness her official capacity former government employee.
MS. COPE-KASTEN: Cali Cope-Kasten, behalf Heather Samuelson.
MR. STEKLOFF: Brian Stekloff, behalf Ms. Samuelson.
MR. BREWSTER: Hal Brewster, also behalf Ms. Samuelson.
THE WITNESS: Heather Samuelson.
VIDEO SPECIALIST: Thank you.
The court reporter today Debbie Whitehead, representing Planet Depos. Would the reporter please swear the witness.
HEATHER SAMUELSON,
having
been
duly sworn, testified follows: EXAMINATION COUNSEL FOR PLAINTIFF
MS. COTCA: Okay. And just response that, guess would just state that obviously Ms. Samuelson has her attorneys who are representing her. You have the opportunity hear whats being asked. You have the opportunity object. And you believe that there any question thats delving privilege, and you want make objection and instruction your client, you certainly have the opportunity here today.
MR. BREWSTER: Thank you.
MS. COTCA: Okay.
All right. that it?
MR. BREWSTER: Thats it. MS. COTCA: Okay. Ms. Samuelson, have you ever been deposed before? have not. Okay. But youre attorney? am. Okay. And just for the record, when did you obtain your J.D., become attorney? MS. COTCA: All right. Good morning, Ms. Samuelson. For the record, can you please state your name and spell your name. Heather Samuelson. H-E-A-T-H-E-R S-A-M-U-E-L-S-O-N.
MR. BREWSTER: Ramona, dont want interrupt, but can just memorialize what discussed before?
MS. COTCA: was just going give you the opportunity that.
MR. BREWSTER: Okay. Thank you much. counsel for plaintiff and discussed off the record beforehand, Ms. Samuelson attorney for Hillary Clinton, and there may some testimony today that questions today that try attempt elicit privileged information, embark upon not that youre attempting to. will assert privilege need be. But she does answer any question, whether privilege asserted not, just the record reflect not intentional waiver privilege. 12) graduated law school 2008. Okay. Since you havent been deposed before, sure youre familiar with the rules deposition, the ground rules for them. But Ill just through them briefly.
One is, you have been sworn obviously been asked answer everything truthfully. there any reason why you believe that you would not able answer any the questions truthfully here today? No. Okay. Also, you see the court reporter, and she here and she transcribing everything thats being said today the record. have clear transcript, its important that dont speak over each other. will best not interrupt you you are answering your question questions. But, also, would ask, sometimes you may anticipate the question thats being asked, but just let finish asking for purposes
PLANET DEPOS
888.433.3767 WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019 having clear record. that fair? Yes. Okay. Good.
Also, youre doing very well, youre
providing
verbal responses. nods the head not transcribe onto the record. Okay? you need clarification any the questions that asking, please let know. happy so. you not ask for clarification, will assume that you understood the question thats being asked and that you answered the question thats being asked. that fair? Thats fair. Okay. Good.
Also, your your attorney just put the record, there may objections during the deposition. Some may privilege, some may for other purposes.
Unless your attorney instructs you not answer, you still must answer the question thats case. you recognize it? do. Okay. Youve seen before? have. Okay. Great. let just ask you, then, are you familiar with the lawsuit pending here today, which asked for you deposed in? familiar with it. Okay. Whats your familiarity with it? know that FOIA-related suit. Okay. Just give you little bit more background it. Its FOIA lawsuit that Judicial Watch filed against the State Department which Judicial Watch asked for records from the Secretary Secretary Clintons office the time regards communications and updates that were provided Susan Rice, talking points provided Susan Rice following the September 11, 2012, attacks Benghazi. Okay? Uh-huh. being asked. would also just ask your attorneys, any your attorneys object, that you just give them the opportunity finish their objection the record, and then answer accordingly, unless they instruct you not to, not answer. Okay? Okay. Okay. you need break any point, let know. Were happy take breaks. would say, though, there pending question, would ask that you answer the question. Unless the break discuss whether privilege applies and you need consult with your attorney that regard. Okay? All right. All right. Great.
(Samuelson Deposition Exhibit marked for identification, retained counsel.) You have before you whats been marked Exhibit which copy the subpoena that served you sending your attorneys this (13 16) With respect your deposition, just want cover little bit general terms the subject matters that were going cover. Discovery not typical FOIA; however, Judge Lamberth this case permitted discovery and permitted Judicial Watch take your testimony this case three topics that granted discovery over.
One whether Secretary Clinton intentionally attempted evade FOIA using private e-mail while Secretary State. The second subject matter whether States efforts settle this case late 2014 and early 2015 amounted bad faith. And the third topic that where permitted discovery whether State adequately searched for records responsive Judicial Watchs FOIA request.
And the court found that you, former State Department senior advisor, who helped facilitate States receipt Secretary Clintons e-mails, was permitted permitted deposed all these topics. Okay?
PLANET DEPOS
888.433.3767 WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019 (17 20) Okay. Thank you.
And you said you began assistant the White House liaison office. Yes. some point did your position change? Yes. Later became the director the office. Okay. And when did you become the director the office? believe was sometime 2011. Who was the director the office when you started there? did not have director when started there. Okay. How many why dont back little bit. And how many employees were the office when you started there? started the White House liaison during period transition when Secretary Clinton was transitioning the office. believe there were four when first started. Okay. All right. just think makes sense just were going start probably the same order the topics that the court outlined, because makes sense chronologically. well start off with general background your employment and when you began the State Department. you can tell me, when did you start working the State Department? January 2009. Okay. And what was your position State? started off assistant working the White House liaisons office. Okay. Where the White House liaisons office? What you mean where? guess there are many bureaus and bigger offices. have chart, which actually can just mark it. can have you look it. you can identify where within the
organizational
chart your office was, that would great.
MR. BREWSTER: going object. This likely outside scope permissible discovery. will allow her answer the question.
MS. COTCA: Okay.
(Samuelson Deposition Exhibit marked for identification, retained counsel.) office, the White House liaisons office when worked there cant speak where today -14 Right. fell under the Under Secretary For Management, Thank you. And that was Patrick Kennedy the time? Correct. Okay. And your office was the seventh floor? Correct. Okay. And youre saying during the
transition. that would have been before January 2009? No; was January 2009. was just just meant was transitioning the State Department. Okay. Yeah. But also served the transition team the State Department. For Secretary when Secretary Clinton came board? Correct. Okay. And what what capacity did you serve the transition team? helped with the appointments and nominations process. Okay. All right. And going back the White House liaisons office when you started there. Uh-huh. You said there were four other employees? Correct.
PLANET DEPOS
888.433.3767 WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019 Okay. And who were they? cant remember today. you know their titles their positions the office? They were they were assistants,
was. Okay. And until 2011, when you became the director, did they also remain employed within the office with you? have dont recall who was still there when was director versus who was there when first started. There was there was people that transitioned and out. Okay. How many people were employed the office when you became the director the office? believe was and one two others. And you know who they are? had two had deputies that changed over time. Okay. And who were the deputies that you seasons months? dont. You dont. Okay.
And who well, prior becoming the director the office, who did you report to? reported Cheryl Mills when first came 2009, and Under Secretary Patrick Kennedy. had dual reporting. Okay. And how long did you report Ms. Mills? reported Ms. Mills from January 2009 until sometime sorry, just trying remember. This really this was ten years ago. understand. Take your time. was assistant the White House liaisons office for the first year. Then went into another office, the bureau Bureau Economic and Business Affairs for few months. And then went back the White House liaisons office when became the director it.
Again, was some may have been had who changed over time?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Outside the scope permissible discovery. will allow her answer, she knows. Ethan Gelber. And how you spell his last name? G-E-L-B-E-R. Okay. And Kelly Mehlenbacher. And how you spell Kellys last name? couldnt tell you today. Mehlenbacher. Okay.
But thats one last name, one full name, right, Mehlenbacher? Correct. One word. Okay. Thank you.
When did you sorry you already stated this. But when 2011 did you become the director? dont remember the exact date. you remember time frame the year -22 dont. (21 24) even early late 2010. really just dont remember this point. Okay. And thats all right. But let just, have have understanding.
When you were assistant the White House liaisons office, prior moving the Bureau Economics and Business Affairs, did you throughout that time report Ms. Mills well Under Secretary Patrick Kennedy? did. Correct. Okay. Great. And then when you came back, you came back the White House liaison office, thats when you came back director? Correct. Okay. And who guess, who approved your promotion director? would have been approved the White House, would have been approved Cheryl Mills, and would have been approved Patrick Kennedy. Okay. And then the director the White House liaisons office 2011, how long did
PLANET DEPOS
888.433.3767 WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019 you stay there that role? Until March 2013. Okay. from 2011 2013, while you were the director the office, did you continue report Ms. Mills and Patrick Kennedy? Correct. Okay. All right.
Can you just provide general background what mean, obviously the name provides some understanding what the office did. But you can provide your own words what the office did. Yeah. course. our office was primarily responsible for the recruitment, vetting, hiring, paperwork flow and process, onboarding political appointees the department.
That ranged from Senate-confirmed positions Schedule Cs, appointments advisory boards. also served general point contact the White House other matters, the time? No. Okay. you know Brian Pagliano? do. Okay. When did you first know Mr. Pagliano? sorry. Thats okay. Ive actually known Brian since was teenager. went camp together. Okay. Were not going that far back.
Did you know Mr. Pagliano while you were the transition team? did. Okay. And were you aware his role with respect providing services and assistance Secretary Clinton that time? knew provided services the campaign. did not know provided services Secretary Clinton personally that time. Okay. And Mr. Pagliano came board needed. Okay. Now, you also said you were involved Secretary Clintons transition team? Thats correct. And when did you become when did you become involved the transition team? believe again, this very long time ago this point. But believe was sometime late November, early December 2008. Okay. Thank you.
And briefly, what was what was your
role,
again, the transition team? didnt have formal title, that can remember. might have. just dont remember it. But handled, again, appointments and nominations. Okay. While you were the transition team, was there any were there any discussions with respect Secretary Clintons use e-mail while she was going become Secretary State? Not that was involved in. Were you aware any such discussions (25 28) the State Department well. that right? Thats correct. Okay. Did you were you involved his hiring Schedule was involved all Schedule hirings the White House liaison. were you involved the hiring Mr. Pagliano well? Yes. Did you, during your time the well, lets focus the early tenure Secretary Clinton the State Department.
Between transition time, from transition time to, you know, first year her tenure.
Did you often what was your interaction with Mr. Pagliano?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Vague. You may answer. Could you could you ask that question again? Sure. From the time period from when you started the transition team for Secretary
PLANET DEPOS
888.433.3767 WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019 Clinton through her first year into Secretary Clintons tenure the State Department, how often would you interact with Mr. Pagliano? youre asking from December 2008 December 2009? Lets say November, December 2008 the end 2009. Correct. the only interaction recall having with him was his onboarding. And what you mean onboarding? Oh, sorry. would the hiring process. Okay. And then what about throughout the remainder, remaining tenure Secretary Clinton through 2013; did you have any other interactions with Mr. Pagliano that you recall today?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Relevance. You can answer. sure did. sure did. was Schedule the department. sure interacted with him. But could not recall specific instances. the IRM bureau. have look up, see what that stands for. think its information and resource management. Correct. And information resource management dealt with IT-type services for the State Department. that right? Thats correct. Okay. just want talk about what your interaction was with Secretary Clinton while you were assistant, while you were first assistant the White House liaisons office.
Did you have much interaction with Secretary Clinton during that time frame? did not. You did not. understand that Ms. Mills would have been your point contact? Thats correct. Okay. And what about, then, when you became the director the White House liaisons office; did you did you begin have any more interaction with Secretary Clinton that point? Okay. Was there any interaction
discussions
with Mr. Pagliano reference Secretary Clintons e-mail Huma Abedin e-mail?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Vague. Calls for speculation. did not have any conversations with him about that. Okay. Were you aware during this time period any involvement that had with respect Secretary Clintons e-mail Huma Abedins e-mail? Could you ask that question again? Ill read back.
Were you aware during this time period any involvement that had with respect Secretary Clintons e-mail Huma Abedins e-mail? No, was not aware the time any -19 any involvement had. Okay. Mr. Pagliano was hired Schedule what for the State Department? recollection that was advisor (29 32)
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Vague. had more interaction with her, but was still infrequent. Okay. That would have been from 2011 2013. Correct? Correct. Okay. And when you say was infrequent, can you describe what you mean that? was mainly person, would see her the halls. Okay. Did you ever see Secretary Clinton carry BlackBerry with her? Not that recall. sorry. Ever, during time the State Department? During your time. Were focusing your time the State Department. Okay. So, no, not during time the State Department, that can recall. Thank you for clarifying.
Okay. want go, again, through
PLANET DEPOS
888.433.3767 WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019 your background, because you served different capacity that are relevant here. you left the White House liaisons office you said March 2013? did. Okay. And where did you from there? went White House counsels office. Okay. And who was the White house counsel the time?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Relevance.
You may answer. Kathy Ruemmler. And what was your position the counsels the White House counsels office?
MR. BREWSTER: Same objection. was assistant counsel. You were assisting which counsel? didnt have specific counsel. That was just title, assistant counsel. Assistant counsel. Okay. then you could describe, what did you assistant counsel? (33 36) think that would have been March 11, 2013.
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Misstates evidence.
No, wrong about the year. Forgive me. Objection withdrawn.
MS. COTCA: did actually pull the calendar figure out the date. And then April 2014 when you left the White House counsel, employment-wise where did you after that? May 2014 became one the Secretarys personal counsels. Okay. And who hired you her personal counsel?
And when you say personal counsel, you are mean attorney? Correct. Sorry. Thats okay. And who hired you? Cheryl Mills. And did you have retainer agreement -MR. BREWSTER: Objection.
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Outside the
scope permissible discovery. will permit the witness answer. continued working vetting nominations, well had ethics and compliance portfolio. And who did you report the White House counsels office?
MR. BREWSTER: Same objection.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. reported the deputy counsel. And was that Caroline Shank the time? was not. Who was the deputy counsel? was Leslie Kiernan. And how long did you remain the White House counsels office? Until April 2014. Did you begin the White House counsels office March 2013, right after you left the State Department? Yes. That following Monday. when you were hired?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Relevance. You may answer. did. Okay. And you still have, the retainer agreement, its still current?
MR. BREWSTER: Same objection. Correct. And when you were hired Ms. Mills serve personal counsel for Secretary Clinton, obviously understand that you served that capacity with respect e-mails that Secretary Clinton returned the State Department. that correct? dont dont want into any other matters that you represented that you were hired represent Secretary Clinton. just want establish your role with respect reviewing her e-mails and the return her e-mails the State Department.
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Vague.
Could you restate the question? not
PLANET DEPOS
888.433.3767 WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019 (37 40) entirely understanding what youre youre getting here. what legal matter were you hired Ms. Mills represent Secretary Clinton -MR. BREWSTER: Objection. May 2014?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. May call for privileged information.
But you can answer, you can without divulging privileged information. was hired work number matters May 2014. Okay. think what youre asking, this matter, was not one them May 2014. Okay. Did you begin working for Secretary Clinton her attorney for purposes returning e-mails the Secretary the State Department? No. was already working for her personal attorney prior that. Correct. But did you begin working
With respect Secretary Clintons e-mails and also what your involvement may have been the State Department with respect certain FOIA requests that pertained Secretary Clintons e-mails, did you give any interviews the Benghazi Select Committee?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. was not interviewed personally the Benghazi Select Committee. What you mean you personally? Oh, mean represented Secretary Clinton her interview with the Benghazi committee. That was very public. was not interviewed the Benghazi committee. Okay. just asking about -16 Yeah. Yes. interviews you, personally. Okay?
Was there request the committee that they interview you?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Relevance.
Calls
-or calls for testimony outside the scope permissible discovery. that while you were her attorney? Oh, yes. Yes. Okay. And when did you Sorry. misunderstood your question. problem.
And when did you begin working
specifically
with respect the Secretarys return her e-mails the State Department? believe that was August 2014. For your appearance this case, Secretary Clinton paying your legal fees any person entity associated with Secretary Clinton former President Clinton the Clinton Foundation?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Vague. Relevance. Outside the scope permissible discovery.
You may answer, you know. No. And well get back the work that you started doing August 2014. just wanted get through the background here.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection.
You may answer. dont recall know they had specific request interview me. Okay. You did provide you were interviewed the FBI May 24, 2016, with respect Secretary Clintons e-mail. Correct?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Outside the scope permissible discovery. was interviewed the FBI. That date sounds correct. Okay. Was there only one interview that the that you gave the FBI?
MR. BREWSTER: Same objection. Yes. Okay. Then what about, are you familiar with State Department Office Inspector General, state OIG?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Relevance. familiar with the office. Okay. Great. Youre aware that the OIG for the State Department investigated the State
PLANET DEPOS
888.433.3767 WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019 (41 44) Departments processing FOIA, FOIA requests, and came out with report January 2016.
Are you aware that report?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Vague. you know. aware the report, but its been very long time since Ive read it. Sure. And thats fair.
Was did the state OIG office request for interview for your interview doing that investigation?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Outside the scope permissible discovery.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. You may answer. not believe they do. dont remember them asking for interview. Okay. you know, they would have asked for interview, would that have been you directly your attorneys, the request?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Calls for speculation. Yes. you have whats been marked Exhibit
No. just want you have opportunity just review it. Okay. think this Exhibit Oh, its Exhibit Thank you.
MR. PEZZI: Was Exhibit the subpoena?
MS. COTCA: Exhibit was the subpoena.
MR. PEZZI: the org chart Exhibit
MS. COTCA: Yes. MS. COTCA: dont want interrupt you, but not going ask you specific questions about the conversation between Secretary Clinton and General Petraeus. just have more broader question. Okay. you see well, just for the record, the record clear, Ill describe this e-mail chain between Secretary Clinton and General David Petraeus beginning January 10, you know. dont know. Okay. And then the State Departments OIG office also did investigation into specifically Secretary Clintons e-mails, and that report came out May 2016.
Are you familiar with that report?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Relevance. You may answer. am. may conflating the two reports, but recall report that well. Okay. Well, with respect the May report specific Secretary Clintons e-mail use the State Department, you you know if, did the state OIG contact you requesting your interview for that investigation?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Relevance. Out outside the scope permissible discovery. dont remember.
(Samuelson Deposition Exhibit marked for identification, retained counsel.) Ms. Samuelson 2009, through January 28, 2009. that fair representation whats been marked Exhibit Could you repeat that? sorry. got distracted reading it. Thats okay.
Just the record clear, Ill describe this exhibit e-mail chain between Secretary Clinton and General David Petraeus beginning January 10, 2009, through January 28, 2009. that fair description the document marked Exhibit Yes. Okay. Thank you. want point you the first e-mail
from
Secretary
Clinton General Petraeus the top the exhibit, dated January 28, 2009, 9:33 p.m. And Ill Ill read the points that referring you to.
She writes, David, Sorry tardy
responding.
Ive had BlackBerry blues.
PLANET DEPOS
888.433.3767 WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019 cant use mine all day since whole office skiff. dont yet have computer, and had change address and lost some e-mail traffic. you see that? do. Okay. And all the and you see the e-mail address that Secretary Clinton used communicate with General Petraeus? do. Okay. And whats that e-mail address? Its hdr22@clintonemail.com. Okay. And then you see Secretary Clinton used different e-mail address all the earlier e-mail messages -16 Yes. reflected this document. that right? Correct. Okay. And whats that e-mail address? HR15@ATT.BlackBerry.net. Okay. want ask you first with (45 48) aware that she changed
Were you aware that time? that time?
During this time frame, yes.
Not specifically that day, but during this time period. was not.
MS. COTCA: And, counsel, would just ask that you know that speaking objections are not permitted.
You may object for the record, and thats fine. The transcript will speak for itself. But speaking objections and coaching the witness not permitted.
MR. BREWSTER: The objection was more for
you.
And well within rights object.
MS. COTCA: Youre within your rights object, but not speaking objections. Ms. Samuelson, when did you first become aware that Secretary Clinton used the e-mail address hdr22@clintonemail.com while she was the State Department? respect the e-mail the BlackBerry.net e-mail address these earlier e-mails, was that Secretary Clintons e-mail address prior coming the State Department?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Vague. you know. believe so. Okay. And then Secretary Clinton said that she changed her e-mail address the Clinton e-mail.com.
Were you aware Secretary Clinton
changing
her e-mail address January 28, 2009, the Clintonemail.com?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Question mischaracterizes the document. She hasnt said she changes Clintonemail.com.
MS. COTCA: She said she changed her e-mail address, and that top e-mail different e-mail address. Are you aware Secretary Clinton changing her e-mail address from ATTBlackBerry.net Clintonemail.com? believe first became aware when either she e-mailed personal matters, such wishing happy birthday, when infrequently would receive e-mails forwarded from others the department that had that e-mail address listed elsewhere the document. Okay. And when trying gauge the time frame when that was. Either the personal e-mail wishing you happy birthday, and then want move into the other e-mails. was later her tenure, but couldnt tell you exactly when. And how about, you said that you infrequently received e-mails that were forwarded you from other State Department officials. that right? Correct. Okay. And who were the State Department officials? recall Cheryl Mills, but could have been others. Okay. you recall anybody else
PLANET DEPOS
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Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019 specifically other than Ms. Mills, sitting here today? Not sitting here today. Okay. And can you provide the time frame when Ms. Mills had forwarded you e-mails from Secretary Clinton? Again, was really infrequent, and couldnt couldnt tell you when. Okay. But was while you were the State Department? Correct. Okay. And was for State Department business. Correct? Correct. Okay. When you were the State Department, did you have BlackBerry issued? did. Okay. And you were provided state.gov e-mail account? was. Okay. Did you ever use any other e-mail account for State Department business when you (49 52)
MS. COTCA: She said she may have.
MR. STEKLOFF: Okay. But, mean, you have ask questions that arent just assuming facts that havent been testified to.
MS. COTCA: And not.
MR. STEKLOFF: Okay. Lets clarify your testimony, Ms. Samuelson.
You your practice was use your state.gov e-mail account? Thats correct. Okay. Did you ever use personal e-mail account for State Department business during your entire tenure the State Department?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Relevance.
Outside
the scope permissible discovery.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. dont want say never. may have. Okay. those situations -20 dont have recollection it. Okay. did, would have would have were the State Department?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Relevance. Outside the scope permissible discovery.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. recollection conducted State Department business state.gov account. Okay. you recall ever using personal e-mail account for State Department business?
MR. BREWSTER: Same objection.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. dont recall. may have. But practice was use state.gov e-mail account. Okay. And when you used your personal e-mail account, what was your practice with respect how retain those e-mails for State Department?
MR. BREWSTER: Same objection.
MR. PEZZI: Objection. Form.
MR. STEKLOFF: mean, not trying give speaking objection, but she didnt say that she used her personal e-mail for state purposes. likely forwarded state.gov account ccd state.gov account. Thank you. But dont have specific recollection. Okay. But your practice would have been, you did, forward the e-mail your state.gov e-mail account? Correct. Correct. Okay. Thank you.
Why was that your practice?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection.
MR. STEKLOFF: Then youre assuming just -MS. COTCA: have your objection the record. mean, ahead and put your objection
the
record.
MR. STEKLOFF: Shes giving you hypothetical because youre asking questions about hypotheticals. then you say, why was that your practice, assumes that happened.
MS. COTCA: No.
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Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019
MR. STEKLOFF: think you can ask that happened, why would that have been your practice. But dont think you can say why was that your practice and assume that took place based the testimony she just gave you.
MS. COTCA: Okay. MS. COTCA: Why would that have been your practice? would captured the State Department system, and own organizational purposes. How about Justin Cooper; you know who Justin Cooper is? do. Okay. And when did you start when did you first know Mr. Cooper? dont remember when first interacted with Justin. Was before Secretary Clinton became Secretary State? may have been. just dont recall. Okay. Did you interact with Mr. Cooper dont recall you attended? dont recall workshop. Okay. During your time the White House liaisons office the State Department, what role did you have with respect Freedom Information Act requests? Our office was from time time tasked with searching our own records response Freedom Information Act requests. Okay. And can you tell what the process was when you were tasked? when received task, would look through our e-mails, would look through our office share drive, and any paper files that had the office. And who would task the office the search?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Relevance. Wed receive tasker from the State Department FOIA office. Okay. Was that Clarence Finney and Jonathon Wasser? while you were the State Department? dont recall any interactions with him. Okay. Ms. Samuelson, when you were the White House liaison office, did you receive any training that was provided Clarence Finneys office, who was the director, deputy director, S/ES-IRM with respect records management?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form.
MR. PEZZI: Objection. Form. dont recall receiving training. Okay. Did you receive training with respect FOIA when you were the State Department? may have, but dont recall. Did you attend any records management workshops that Mr. Finney provided the principals office the seventh floor while -19 while you were the State Department?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. dont recall those. You dont recall the workshop, you (53 56)
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Calls for
speculation. you know. dont recall. Okay. Are you familiar with the IRM office for the seventh floor principals, which labeled S/ES-C?
MR. PEZZI: Objection. Form.
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. Let rephrase that. Okay. Are you were you aware with the office who handled FOIA requests and correspondences coming into the Secretarys office and other principals the seventh floor thats labeled S/ES-C?
MR. PEZZI: Objection. Form. not familiar with that acronym. Okay. you know Clarence Finney? dont recall knowing him when was the State Department. have since seen his name the press.
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Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019 Okay. How about Jonathon Wasser? No.
Well, should say dont recall. mean, was long time ago. Sure. Thats fair. just trying understand where the tasker where the task came from with respect FOIA requests that came your office.
When you say the FOIA office, can you tell more what you mean that? thought was within the bureau. Okay. And would that have been from IPS within the bureau? Thats that information -15 Program services, believe. think thats correct. dont remember. Okay. was sheet that was sent. was something that was sent us. Okay. All right. Okay. Thank you for that.
Then what about with respect your involvement with FOIA requests; what involvement did you have with FOIA requests asking for records from Secretary Clintons office? None. Are you familiar with FOIA request that came the State Department December 2012, from organization, the acronym CREW, stands for Citizens and for Responsibility and Ethics Washington, believe, that asks for records pertaining Secretary Clintons e-mails?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Vague. you know. familiar with it. Okay. Mainly from the prep for this process. For this process, you mean for this deposition? Yes, for this deposition. Okay. Yes. Thats right. have have e-mails that show that you participated the processing that FOIA request the State
And when you received the task, the
request
pertained your e-mails, would you conduct your own search your own e-mails response the FOIA request?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Relevance. Outside the scope permissible discovery. never received request for personal e-mails, state.gov e-mails, should say, while was there. Okay. how lets back up.
The tasker would send would ask
search
e-mails. How would the office about searching e-mails?
MR. BREWSTER: Same objection. got tasker that was related to, for example, the hiring particular appointee -18 Okay. and office would look through our own e-mails see had anything related that. Okay. Thank you. (57 60) Department.
And want ask you want move questioning asking you about your role with respect that request.
MR. PEZZI: Objection. Form. What you recall about the request?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Vague. Could you more specific? Well, you recall you recall being made aware that the request came in. you recall how you were made aware
the
request?
MR. PEZZI: Objection. Form.
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Assumes facts not evidence. Let ask you, you recall being made aware the CREW request after came the State Department? recall it, but recollection -20 dont recall the time being made if, when, how was made aware that request. Okay. All right. Why dont ...
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Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019
MR. BREWSTER: Ramona, assuming this going long colloquy, and weve been going for minutes. Would this good time for break?
MS. COTCA: Sure.
VIDEO SPECIALIST: are going off the record 11:05. recess was taken.)
VIDEO SPECIALIST: are back the record 11:20. MS. COTCA: Ms. Samuelson, prior the break believe you testified that you reviewed some documents regards this CREW request pertaining Secretary Clinton. that right?
MR. PEZZI: Objection. Form. not believe testified that reviewed documents prior the break. Prior the deposition. For preparation for your deposition, understood your testimony that you had reviewed some Sheryl Walter. Okay. And did that refresh all your recollection with respect well, let reask this way: And what were your discussions communications with Sheryl Walter about, regards this FOIA request?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. reviewed e-mails showing that she had been communicating with the request. Okay. you and what were those specific communications about pertaining the request?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. there document you want show her?
MS. COTCA: will. just want
understand
what her general understanding with respect her role after reviewing the documents. happy look particular document, thats what you want discuss. Well, have some specific questions with respect some the e-mails. But just want understand what your understanding documents pertaining CREWs FOIA request relating Secretary Clintons e-mails. Thats correct. that correct?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection.
MR. PEZZI: Objection.
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. Okay. Thank you. Based your review the documents, what did you come learn with respect what your involvement was pertaining that FOIA request?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Potentially calls for privileged information. you can answer without divulging attorney-client communications. What was your question again? Based your review the documents, what did you come learn with respect what your involvement was pertaining that FOIA request?
MR. BREWSTER: Same objection. saw that was e-mail traffic with (61 64) your role generally with respect the CREW FOIA request.
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. see from the traffic that she had communicated with about this. dont recall the specifics our conversation. Okay. you recall any requests for you track this request for purposes communicating with the White House about the request?
MR. PEZZI: Objection. Form.
MR. BREWSTER: Same objection. dont recall that.
(Samuelson Deposition Exhibit marked for identification, retained counsel.) show you whats been marked Exhibit you can take look that and let know once youve had chance review it. You dont need review line line. Okay. But just have couple questions about that.
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Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019
Did you review this document prior your deposition today?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Calls for privileged information.
MS. COTCA: Are you instructing her not
answer?
MR. BREWSTER: am, yes.
MS. COTCA: Okay. sorry, what was this marked as?
MR. BREWSTER: Exhibit Exhibit Okay. Ms. Samuelson, have you ever seen this e-mail chain before?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. You may answer. Yes, have. Okay. And just the record clear, this appears e-mail traffic between State Department officials about the CREW request that were talking about, requesting records sufficient show the number e-mail accounts associated with Secretary Hillary Rodham Clinton and the extent which those e-mail accounts are believe was 2012. 2012. Okay. And what was his position once moved into the Secretarys office? dont recall his exact position. was special assistant the office.
Sorry. trying speak up. should the same.
And was special assistant whom? whom did report, you know?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. believe reported Cheryl Mills, though not sure. Okay. And were you involved the hiring Mr. Johnson the State Department 2009? was. Okay. And -18 was with all Schedule appointees. Okay. was also Schedule appointee? Correct. Okay. were you aware that Doug Band, identifiable those associated with Secretary Clinton. And that request was forwarded Ms. Mills December 11, 2012, Brock Johnson. that fair representation?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. Yes. Okay. Thank you. you know who Brock Johnson is? do. Okay. Who he? worked the State Department. And what was his role the State Department? started off the special envoys office for the closure Guantanamo Bay. And then towards the end Secretarys tenure moved into the Secretarys office. When did move into the Secretarys office? dont remember the exact date. Was 2012, the year before? (65 68) senior official the Clinton Foundation, referred Mr. Brock Cheryl Mills and Huma Abedin, asking that the State Department find placement for him back April 2009?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. Outside the scope permissible discovery. you know.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. And objection, foundation. may have known was recommended Mr. Band the time. dont dont recall. Okay. was somebody interviewed, and also interviewed with his supervisor. Who was his supervisor? When was the special envoy for the office going mispronounce this. The office closure for Guantanamo Bay, blanking his name. Hes long-time ambassador. blanking his name. Thats okay. hes great guy.
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Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019 (69 72) Fair enough. And were you aware that Mr. Band asked Ms. Mills and Ms. Abedin that its important take care him back April 2009?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Outside the scope.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. And objection, foundation. dont recall that. had process which interviewed and hired everybody. And are you aware that Ms. Abedin responded April 22nd, 2009, saying, have all had him our radar. Personnel has been sending him options?
MR. BREWSTER: Same objections.
Are you aware that?
MR. PEZZI: Same objections. No. mean, was ten years ago. dont recall. And the reference that personnel has been sending him options, would that personnel have included you? request over you and ask you anything with respect the request?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. dont recall her doing so.
(Samuelson Deposition Exhibit marked for identification, retained counsel.) Ill show you whats been marked Exhibit
You can take minute just look it. Let know once youve had chance review it.
And see that youre the right page. Page where going point you to, and just have some questions about. Sorry. Its long letter. Thats okay. only going actually ask you questions from that would pertain the second and third paragraph -18 Okay. actually, just the second paragraph the second page, which your name appears. Okay.
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. And objection, foundation. Yes. likely would have been either somebody office that would have been communicating with. Okay. And that time, just were clear, you were assistant the White House liaison office. Correct? Thats correct. Okay. Thank you. Back Exhibit you know why Mr. Johnson forwarded this request Cheryl Mills December 2012? And referring the Secretary e-mail from the top the e-mail chain.
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. not. Did you have any discussions with Ms. -19 with Ms. Mills after she received this request? dont recall having discussions with her. may have, but dont recall. Okay. Did Ms. Mills then forward this Have you had chance review that? Yes, Ive read those paragraphs. Okay. Have you seen this well, the record clear, this letter from Chairman Charles Grassley for the committee the judiciary, dated January 27, 2016, then Secretary State, Secretary Kerry. that accurate representation? Thats correct. Okay. specific, the second page this letter well, have you seen this letter before?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. have. Okay. And particularly the second paragraph the second page, Senator Grassley states that, regards this CREW FOIA request, that Mr. Brock Johnson e-mailed the CREW request Ms. Mills, and afterwards Ms. Mills, after she received the request, she transmitted Ms. Heather Samuelson, senior advisor and White House liaison the department.
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Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019 you see that? do. Okay. When did Ms. Mills transmit copy this request you?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. Foundation.
MR. PEZZI: Same objections. Again, dont recall her transmitting this me. understand you reported Ms. Mills during this time period, December 2012.
How was your mode communication with Ms. Mills? Was person, via e-mail, telephone?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. All the above. Fair enough. And how often would you interact with Ms. Mills during this time frame? Very regularly. Okay. would you say daily? Yes, daily. mean, there might have been days outside the CREW request were talking about today? Well, again, dont recall her asking track the FOIA this FOIA request. Okay. dont recall her asking track any FOIA request. Right. just want know, did she you have any recollection her asking you track any other FOIA requests?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. She may have. just dont recall. Okay. And then Senator Grassley also goes say that after Ms. Mills transmitted the request you, that then you tasked Mr. Josh Dorosin, State Department attorney. you know who Josh Dorosin is? remember that was attorney the State Department. Anything else? No. Okay. Did you task Mr. Josh didnt communicate. the record here. understand. understand. you recall Ms. Mills asking you make queries the status this CREW request any point?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. Can you ask your question again? sorry. Sure. you recall Ms. Mills instructing you make queries the status the CREW request? not. And question not necessarily just December 2012, but any point from December 2012, until you left the State Department. you recall Ms. Mills asking you follow track this FOIA request. dont recall. She may have. just dont recall it. Okay. Did Ms. Mills, you recall today, ask you track any other FOIA requests (73 76) Dorosin? dont know what the word task means. didnt have the authority task anything Mr. Dorosin. Did you have conversations with Mr. Dorosin with respect following keeping you date about the CREW FOIA request?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. may have. just dont recall. Okay. Did you interact often with Mr. Josh Dorosin when you were the State Department? No, dont believe so.
(Samuelson Deposition Exhibit marked for identification, retained counsel.) Okay. Ive shown you whats been marked Exhibit which e-mail chain, again, among State Department officials that include you.
Youre not all the e-mails, but youre this e-mail chain about the CREW request. And that starts off December 20th,
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Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019 2012, from Ms. Sheryl Walter, ending March 5th, 2013, from Jonathan Davis you, and then ccing other individuals. that fair representation whats been marked Exhibit Yes. Okay. Prior asking specific questions about this, other than Ms. Walter, you recall you spoke with any other State Department officials about this CREW request?
MR. PEZZI: Objection. Form.
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. dont recall. you recall speaking with anybody the White House about this request? dont recall. Did you often communicate with the White House about FOIA requests during your tenure the State Department? dont recall ever speaking them about FOIA requests. talked about earlier, was the White House liaison, was regular Correct. Based your interactions with the office, who would who you believe now you would have communicated the White House Counsels Office about FOIA request? dont know. discussion was held off the record.)
VIDEO SPECIALIST: are going off the record 11:42. recess was taken.)
VIDEO SPECIALIST: Please stand by. are back the record 11:46. MS. COTCA: Ms. Samuelson, when you were serving -15 during this time frame December 2012 through March 2013, you were regular contact with the White House Counsels Office. that fair understanding your testimony? Correct. Okay. And would that would fair say that you were regular contact with the office weekly basis? communication with the Office Presidential Personnel, the Office White House Counsel, the Office Cabinet Affairs. But dont recall speaking with them about this FOIA request any FOIA request. Okay. You said you were regular communication with the White House Counsels Office. Who was your point contact the White House Counsels Office?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. Outside the scope permissible discovery. had multiple points contact. Okay. Who were they? cant remember them today. worked with the vetting team. worked had multiple points contact there. And asking specific for the Office White House Counsels office. that correct? Right. Okay. were speaking just about with respect your points contact for the White House Counsels Office? (77 80) Yes. Okay. daily basis? Weekly, probably. Okay. Give take days? Give take. Okay. Fair enough.
How big was the office during this time frame, the White House Counsels Office? couldnt tell you how big was during that period. Okay. How many different how many individuals did you regularly communicate with during this time period? Multiple. Okay. handful? couldnt say. This was again, this was six years ago. just couldnt say. Okay. And not asking for specific number. just trying get about how many individuals general account how many different people you spoke with within the office, see can maybe narrow down the
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Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019 names who you may have spoken with the White House regards this FOIA request.
MR. BREWSTER: Ramona, can just have running objection outside the scope this line questioning, just with respect just dont keep interrupting you?
MS. COTCA: Sure. not recall who spoke with regarding this FOIA request. not recall who would have spoken with regarding this FOIA request. And thats and understand that. And theres been some time thats passed since this FOIA request. thats why asking, question is, who you normally communicated with during this time frame. would you have communicated with dozens people the White House Counsel, would fewer during this time frame? Fewer than dozens. But the other thing would say that there was lot transition within that office. dont even recall Office? believe met with her when was interviewing for position there myself, but not recall speaking with her about anything work related. Okay. And when did you interview with her for the position?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Outside the scope.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. dont recall. started there March 2013, obviously would have been before that time. But dont recall exactly when. Okay. Okay. you can look Exhibit
Have you had chance review it? have. Okay. And want point you the first e-mail that appears the e-mail chain, which actually the last appearing the document, from Sheryl Walter, dated December 20th, 2012, 12:38 p.m. who would have been speaking with who was the office that time. Okay. Would you have communicated with Deputy Counsel Leslie Kiernan during this time frame? may have. just dont recall. Okay. How about with White House Counsel Kathryn Ruemmler, would you have communicated with her during this time frame? No. never communicated with her directly during this time frame. Okay. least that recall. Sure. Thats fair.
Was Caroline Chang ever the office serving the White House Counsels Office from December 2012 March 2013, you know? dont know. Okay. Did you ever communicate with
Ms.
Chang during this time frame?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. Still within the White House Counsels (81 84)
She says there she wrote
Patrick
Scholl and Rosemary Reid that White House called. Had received FOIA request from CREW the topic personal use e-mail senior officials. you know Ms. Walter spoke with the
White
House regards the FOIA request either December 20th, 2012, prior?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. Foundation. dont know. Okay. Did you ever speak with the White House December 20th, 2012, prior -14 December 20th, 2012? Thats the date the e-mail. spoke with them regularly, but -17 sorry. didnt finish question. Let let reask it.
Did you speak with the White House either December 20th, 2012, prior, about CREWs FOIA request the topic personal use e-mail senior officials?
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Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019 dont recall doing so. you recall this request being discussed your office during this time frame?
MR. PEZZI: Objection. Form. Foundation.
MR. BREWSTER: Same objections. office being the White House liaisons office? Yes. No. Okay. This was not something would have discussed with the others the office. Okay. Why? Why you say that? They just had different responsibilities. just dont think this something would have discussed with them. Okay. And them you mean the other assistants with well, actually, you were director the time. Right. All right. you know you Did you answer? far know, she did. Okay. And you know who her point contact would have been the White House Counsel during this time, you know?
MR. BREWSTER: Same objection.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. dont know. Okay.
Okay. And then can point you
what
appears the second e-mail from the top the third page Exhibit you can and thats e-mail from Ms. Walter you, dated December 20th, 2012. Just little bit over hour and half after the first e-mail appearing this e-mail chain. you see that? do. Okay. And Ms. Walter wrote you saying, you know, informing you that this CREW request came our significant weekly FOIA report that her office sends and S/ES also. remember how many people worked under you the office? dont. Okay. The number varied over time. Okay. the White House had called with would that call have gone through you the director the White House Liaisons Office?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. And objection, foundation. our office was the point contact for number White House offices, they had things matters they wanted bring before the department.
That being said, others the department communicated with the White House regularly, too, policy other matters. Okay. Did Ms. Mills communicate with the
White
House regularly, far you know? Yes.
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. (85 88) you know what the refers to? believe the refers the legal advisors office. Okay. And what about S/ES; what does that refer to? believe that refers the Executive Secretariat the Department State. Okay. And you know what significant what she refers significant weekly FOIA report?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form.
Foundation. Oh, that question? sorry. Yes. you know what what is? No. Okay. And she asked you you wanted that list.
Had Ms. Walter ever asked you you wanted receive her offices significant weekly FOIA report prior December 20th, 2012? She might have. just dont recall.
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Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019 Okay.
MR. STEKLOFF: And, Heather, only because you have pen out, dont write know youre using track, but dont write the exhibits.
THE WITNESS: Okay. Ill put aside.
MR. STEKLOFF: Yeah. Unmarked better.
MS. COTCA: Yes. Thank you.
MR. STEKLOFF: Yeah. you recall Ms. Walter asking you put receive this significant weekly FOIA report? mean, see she did this e-mail. dont recall her doing that prior to. She might have. Okay. just dont recall. Okay. And you recall how you respond whether you did ask put the e-mail not response Ms. Walters e-mail December 20th, 2012? believe did, but not not Ms. Walter was referring to?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. dont. Okay. And after reading this, does this all refresh your recollection about this communication and conversations you may have had with Ms. Walter during this time frame? didnt. Did not. Its its long time ago. Its over six years ago this point. And understand that its been quite some time since this FOIA request. But was normal practice for the director IPS inform you about FOIA requests pertaining Secretary Clinton?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. dont recall her doing so. She may have the past. just dont recall it. All right. Okay. Isnt this the type request, wasnt done normal routine, sure. Okay. Further down the same e-mail Ms. Walter stated, More details below regarding this request. practical matter, given our workload, wont processed for some months. you see that? do. Okay. And when did Secretary Clintons tenure end the State Department? February 1st, 2013. Okay. Was there any discussion that you had with Ms. Walter about needing process this request prior Secretary Clintons departure from the State Department?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. No. Thats just thats not something would have discussed with her. Okay. And then she wrote, Let know there are any particular sensitivities. you see that? do. you know what particular sensitivities (89 92) that would stand out?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. That would stand out me? Yes. No. received hundreds e-mails day. This was busy time the department because was working the transition Secretary Kerry. dont believe this something that would have stuck out me. Was normal routine for your office and the IPS office the Secretarys office contact with the White House about FOIA requests pertaining Secretary Clintons e-mail during her tenure the State Department?
MR. PEZZI: Objection.
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. And objection, foundation. No, like said before, dont recall speaking them about this FOIA request. dont recall speaking them about other FOIA
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Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019 requests. doesnt mean didnt happen; just dont recall today. Okay. But you specifically followed this request. Correct?
MR. PEZZI: Objection. Form.
What you mean followed up? You followed with Ms. Walter after December 20th, 2012. mean, see that from the e-mail chain. Right. you did follow this request with Ms. Walter and others the State Department. Correct?
MR. PEZZI: Objection. Form. Thats what the document shows. Are you disputing that the documents are incorrect -17 No. not disputing it. just saying dont have dont have contemporaneous recollection it. see the document; just dont recall it. Okay. Did you, you recall, did you communicate with Ms. with Ms. Walter any request for Secretary Clintons e-mail accounts?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. Foundation.
MR. PEZZI: Same objections. recollection the request did
number agencies. But dont but why they were following with DHS, dont know. Okay. can you tell about this recollection that youre having about the request going number agencies? Oh, was the e-mail track that ... Okay. was right here. Apparently other agencies have. Ms. Walters initial e-mail from December 20th? Yeah. Okay. you know why Ms. Walter anybody else the State Department was interested with respect how other agencies responded similar request, but separate since wasnt for Secretary Clintons e-mail account? particular sensitivities for the department responding CREWs FOIA request?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. No, dont dont know what she meant particular sensitivities. dont dont know. Okay. All right. the first page Exhibit again, there e-mail from February 14, 2013, from Ms. Walter you and Joshua Dorosin. you see that? do. Okay. And there she wrote, believe were still waiting hear/see what DHS actual response was the requester. DHS Department Homeland Security?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. assume so, but dont know. Okay. you know why the Department Homeland Securitys response separate FOIA request was relevant responding CREWs (93 96)
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form.
Foundation.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. dont know. dont ... Why was the White House interested this request?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. Foundation.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. Sitting here today, could not tell you why they why why they would interested, why she Sheryl would reach out DHS. Okay. Did you reach out DHS about this request? did not. Okay. You have specific memory the fact that you didnt reach out DHS about this request? do. Only because dont know who DHS would have reached out to. All right. And then further the
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Transcript Heather Samuelson
Conducted June 13, 2019 e-mail chain March 2013, from you Joshua Dorosin, Sheryl Walter, and Jonathan Davis, ccing Brock Johnson, you see that e-mail? do. Okay. You say that, Friday will last day, adding Brock Johnson here who will track this request stead. this point Mr. Johnson, where which office was working in? dont know where was March 2013. was the Secretarys office while Secretary Clinton was there. But not know where where was paper after March 2013 after February 2013. Okay. you know how long continued work for the State Department? not. Okay. Why did you add Brock Johnson follow this FOIA request back March 2013? recollection is, says here, that was leaving, was departing White House Counsels Office. was likely trying
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. Foundation.
MR. PEZZI: Same objections. dont. Okay.
(Samuelson Deposition Exhibit marked for identification, retained counsel.)
MR. BREWSTER: this Exhibit
COURT REPORTER: Exhibit
MR. BREWSTER: this one document collection documents?
MS. COTCA: Its actually two documents. Its e-mail chain and then also looks like Outlook calendar entry. Ms. Walter Ms. Samuelson, have you had chance look whats been marked Exhibit Just give one more second. problem.
MR. PEZZI: Sorry. Just for the record, its Exhibit Right?
MS. COTCA: Exhibit sorry. Thank wrap lot things that were still Inbox and make sure things didnt fall through the cracks. And Brock was somebody who must have known was staying board. did you ask Mr. Johnson keep following this request, then? dont have specific recollection it. But based this e-mail traffic, must have. Okay. Then once believe March you started somewhere around that time frame Somewhere around that time. you started the White House Counsels Office.
Did you communicate with anybody the State Department about this FOIA request, whether was Brock Johnson anybody else? dont recall doing so, no. you know what Department Homeland Securitys actual response was the request that received from CREW during this time? (97 100)
100 you. Youve had chance review it? Yes. Okay. Great. And again just the record clear, this two documents; e-mail chain between you and Sheryl Walter December 2012. And some the e-mails are from Ms. Walter other State Department officials.
And then the second document conference call entry regards the CREW FOIA request. that accurate description? Thats accurate. Okay. Thank you.
Have you seen any these documents before?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Privilege. Calls for privileged information.
MS. COTCA: just asking shes ever seen it. not asking what shes seen the presence counsel.
MR. BREWSTER: You can answer you can
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101 divulge with you can answer without divulging privileged information. Have you ever seen the document before?
MR. STEKLOFF: not trying can just mean, shes the document, think you can ask her she saw that time. But then were just trying obviously avoid dispute about whether not she saw prep for the deposition.
MS. COTCA: Fair enough.
MR. STEKLOFF: think -12 thats why were just trying careful, theres -MS. COTCA: Fair.
MR. STEKLOFF: dispute about whether something being waived.
MS. COTCA: Sure. Not problem. MS. COTCA: Did you see this document back 2012? mean, obviously the e-mail chain, and responding it. must
103
Who were the other agencies that also received the CREW request?
MR. BREWSTER: Object. Objection. Form.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. dont recall.
The the only thing recall about this that the FOIA request was sent sometime around when was the press that different cabinet Secretary was using alias government e-mail account. And that request had been sent other agencies besides State. dont know who those other agencies were. just remember that had some broad distribution.
And again, dont know remembering that from 2012 or, because this has been the press for some time, remembering because read that later date. Did you receive any general guidance thoughts from any the other agencies regards the requests from CREW?
102 have seen it. Okay. And what about the conference call entry regards the CREW FOIA request?
MR. BREWSTER: And youre asking 2013?
MS. COTCA: Yes. January 2013.
Thank you. mean, that cant certain whether saw not. But see it. Okay. Lets the e-mail chain. have couple questions. you see your e-mail from December 24,
2012,
Monday, from you Ms. Walter, time stamped 11:54? you see that? do. Okay. And you say, you could add that list, that would great.
And then theres some redacted information, understand that other agencies received similar request, will let you know receive any general guidance/thoughts from them this request. (101 104)
104
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form.
Foundation. dont recall. dont dont recall. And then further the e-mail chain Ms. Walter writes you wrote you December 27, 2012, asking you could have quick conversation with her and Karen Finnegan, her new division chief charge FOIA programs and FOIA litigation, the CREW request. you recall having conversation with
Sheryl
Walter and Karen Finnegan about the CREW request following this e-mail? remember them calling me. just dont remember the specifics the conversation. Again, was was six-and-a-half years ago. And understand that time has passed. guess thats why question is, there are requests going the various agencies the federal government about high-level officials using alias e-mail accounts other e-mail for government business, isnt that the sort thing
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105 that would stand out you and your memory?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. think described before, got got lot e-mails when was government. And this was particularly busy time because were transitioning from Secretary Clinton Secretary Kerry. least should say particularly busy time for me. this not necessarily something that would have stood out me. Okay. Then you said you you recall Ms. Walter and Karen Finnegan calling you? that that accurate? dont know about Karen Finnegan. Okay. not sure who that is. Okay. You recall Ms. Walter calling you about the request? recall having conversation with her. just dont recall the specifics even why she was calling me.
107 wouldnt say often. She had the past reached out me, said before, about our office searching our records response FOIA requests. Okay. When you would communicate when you would interact with Ms. Walter, was there mode communication that was more commonly used either phone person, did vary? dont remember having that many interactions with her, honest.
MR. BREWSTER: Ramona, weve been going for about hour. Are you staying the same topic, are you moving different one?
MS. COTCA: am. There are few more documents relating the request.
MR. BREWSTER: going lengthy.
MS. COTCA: want ask some specific questions about them.
MR. BREWSTER: Okay. going can you estimate how much more time its going be?
MS. COTCA: Fifteen minutes.
106 Okay. And how many conversations you
recall
having with Ms. Walter about the FOIA request from CREW? Only one. There could have been others. just dont remember. the last page Exhibit
conference
call entry CREW FOIA request dated for January 2013, and the organizer was Sheryl Walter, and required attendees listed Karen Finnegan, yourself, and Ms. Walter listed herself that. you see that? do. Okay. With respect the phone call that you recall, this time frame, you have any specific recollection the time frame for that call?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. again, this six-and-a-half years ago. dont recall. Okay. Did you often interact with Ms. Walter while you were the State Department? (105 108)
108 you want take break
MR. BREWSTER: you how are you feeling?
THE WITNESS: okay.
MS. COTCA: you want take break, can.
MR. BREWSTER: you you think its going minutes, lets keep going.
MS. COTCA: Okay. Dont hold it.
THE WITNESS: Actually, maybe Ill take quick snack break, because stomach growling.
VIDEO SPECIALIST: Were going off the record 12:18. recess was taken.)
VIDEO SPECIALIST: are back the record 12:30.
(Samuelson Deposition Exhibit marked for identification, retained counsel.)
MR. PEZZI: And just clear for the
record
about something discussed off the record. just wanted just clear that weve made supplemental document production
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109 response Judge Lamberths order yesterday evening Judicial Watchs motion compel. And the State Department believes that production completes States response with respect the records issue the motion compel.
MS. COTCA: Yes. And received it. Thank you.
MR. BREWSTER: And then just since were the production was made prior lunch, theres anything you want ask questions about Ms. Samuelson, would just ask that review occur over lunch dont have come back for second day.
MS. COTCA: Oh, absolutely. Yes. MS. COTCA: Ms. Samuelson, youve been shown whats been marked Exhibit which e-mail chain between you and Sheryl Walter, and includes other State Department officials, spanning from January 10, 2013, January 2013. that fair representation? Yes.
111 respect this FOIA request? dont recall receiving any intel. Okay. you know did you have discussions with Ms. Walter with respect her notation that the State Department would interpret the CREW request for official accounts only, rather than personal e-mail accounts?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Foundation. dont recall talking with her about that. Did you have any concerns when you received this e-mail January 10, 2013, about Ms. Walters interpretation the CREW request ask for official accounts only Secretary Clinton, even though Ms. Walter and others referred the request internally request for Secretarys personal e-mail?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. And objection, foundation. not sure understand your question.
What you mean concerns?
110 Okay. Have you had chance look it? have. Okay. have few questions about this.
Again, beginning the bottom the e-mail chain, which would the first e-mail chronologically, from January 10, 2013, from Ms. Walter you. And she ccd Karen Finnegan, Jonathan Davis, and Gene Smilansky.
Ms. Walter wrote you you received asked you you received any intel regarding what other agencies are doing regarding this FOIA request that seeks records about number e-mail accounts associated with the Secretary.
Then she wrote, open paren, but isnt specifying personal e-mail accounts are official accounts only, close paren? you see that? do. Okay. Did you receive any intel regarding what other agencies were doing with (109 112)
112 Well, did you did cause you pause
question why Ms. Walter wrote her e-mail you that they are going that the State Department would interpret the CREW request for e-mail accounts official accounts only, when Ms. Walter and other State Department officials the e-mail traffic about the CREW request referred the request request for Secretarys personal e-mail?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. And
objection,
foundation. dont recall having any use your word, concerns, pause. Further down, Ms. Walter wrote well, following what just read, Were considering contacting the requester find out exactly what theyre looking for. you have any concerns about that approach? you know Ms. Walter anybody else the State Department contacted Anne Weismann anybody CREW about the CREW request from
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113 December 2012?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Foundation.
MS. COTCA: Same objection. dont know, nor would have had any concerns about them doing so. Okay. Did you have any concerns about the top portion well, think you just answered that, Ill withdraw that question.
Oh. Still the same exhibit, Exhibit January 10, 2013, e-mail from you Ms. Walter, which the first page, you see that e-mail? do. Okay. says, starting with, Hi, Sheryl. White House Counsel was look its typed locking. believe meant written looking into this for me. you see that? do. does look like typo. Okay. will circle back with them now see they have further guidance. Thanks, Heather.
115
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. dont. dont have any recollection this. When you communicated with White House Counsel, you would have done e-mail, would that have been from your state.gov e-mail account? Yes. How about when calling the White House Counsels Office during this time frame, December through March 2013, December 2012 through March 2013; there telephone log any other recordkeeping that would have existed when calls were made from your office White House Counsels office?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. Outside the scope. you know. dont know. office did not personally keep telephone log, thats what youre asking.
114
Again, you recall now, who the
White
House
Counsel was looking into this for you? dont recall speaking with them about it. Well, you know who the White House Counsel was looking into for you? dont. dont recall speaking with anyone there about it, dont know what referring here. you know anybody the White House Counsel January 2013 who was looking into the CREW FOIA request sent the State Department December 2012?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. dont. wasnt the White House the time. Well, either whether you knew directly speaking with anybody the White House Counsel conversations with learning from other third parties with respect who was looking into this for you the White House Counsel? (113 116)
116 just asking youre aware any
telephone
logs keeping track phone calls between White House Counsels office and your office during this time frame.
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. No, there was call log. Okay. When you started the White House Counsels office March 2013, was the CREW FOIA request issue within the office?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. Foundation. And the office specifying White House Counsels office.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. Not knowledge, dont remember anybody raising with speaking about it. Okay. And then further the e-mail chain, still Exhibit you wrote Ms. Walter, Sorry keep missing each other last week kept missing each other last week. heard back from WHC. Can find time talk Monday.
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117
What does WHC stand for? assuming, based the e-mail traffic, that stands for White House Counsels office. Was your regular practice keep any notes when you spoke with anybody the White House Counsels office back January 2013? dont recall keeping any notes, no.
That wasnt practice. you recall the call that you had conversation that you had with somebody the White House Counsels office, either January 26, 2013, before through January 10, 2013?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. dont. dont recall any conversations this topic. you recall any conversations with White House Counsels office all during this time period between January 10, 2013, and January 26, 2013?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form.
119 the version produced about hour ago.
MS. COTCA: You know, thank you, Steve.
Why dont put this aside. And Ill get copy printed out what was just produced last night, and then Ill ask questions based that one. Okay.
THE WITNESS: Okay. Sounds good.
MS. COTCA: And well that after lunch.
THE WITNESS: Okay. All right.
MR. BREWSTER: this is, are striking this Exhibit
MS. COTCA: No, think well just replace it. Well put the sticker that Exhibit
MR. BREWSTER: Exhibit
MS. COTCA: Exhibit Okay. well put the well replace the other one for sticker Number for Exhibit Okay.
(Samuelson Deposition Exhibit marked for identification, retained counsel.)
118 Thats two-week period from six-and-a-half years ago. regularly talk White House Counsels office. couldnt tell you talked them those two weeks. Okay.
(Samuelson Deposition Exhibit marked
for
identification,
retained counsel.) Ms. Samuelson, showing you whats been marked Exhibit you can take look. Let know once youve had chance review it. you want review the full thing?
Its pretty long. No. Just generally, you can take quick look through it.
MR. PEZZI: And Ill just note for the record that the State Department about hour ago produced less redacted version this document. The only difference between the document the May version, which what this is, understanding, the April 2013, e-mail from Karen Finnegan, Sheryl Walter and Jonathan Davis, believe that redaction has been lifted (117 120)
120
MR. BREWSTER: were making this
Exhibit
10, then?
MS. COTCA: Yes. MS. COTCA: Ms. Samuelson, you can take look whats been marked Exhibit 10. Again, its e-mail chain relating the CREW request. Let know once youve had chance review it. Sorry, just trying look what was the new sections. Oh, sure. Okay. And want point you the last e-mail, the first e-mail the e-mail chain, which appears last this document, Page the exhibit. Dated March 27, 2013, from State Department official Edgar Jaramillo Patrick Scholl and Terry Gordon.
MR. BREWSTER: Yeah, where are you?
MS. COTCA: What the bottom the document Exhibit 10?
MR. BREWSTER: says Joshua, Jonathon.
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121
MS. COTCA: No. Thats the wrong one. Let see that e-mail.
This 899. Okay.
Can off the record for minute.
VIDEO SPECIALIST: are going off record 12:46. recess was taken.)
VIDEO SPECIALIST: are back the record 12:47. MS. COTCA: Ms. Samuelson, have you had chance look whats been marked Exhibit 10? have. Okay. And this four-page e-mail chain, again about the CREW FOIA request between State Department officials, spanning from December 20, 2012, through April 19, 2013. that fair representation? From December 20, 2012, April 19. Nineteen, 2013, yes. Yes. Thank you.
123 touch with Brock Johnson any other matter? trying remember because was long ago. And somebody that communicated with more recently. But dont cant tell you did during that period. Okay. When did you last communicate with Mr. Johnson?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Outside the scope.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. Probably year ago so. Was regards all any the subject matter that were discussing here today? No. was personal nature. And just want point you the second e-mail from the top the first page, from Mr. Johnson Jonathan Davis and Ms. Walter, and then ccing Karen Finnegan, Joshua Dorosin and Gene Smilansky April 19, 2013. you see here where says, have draft response could review copy the DHS letter yet?
122
And during this time frame April
2013,
you
were the White House Counsels office? was. Okay. Did you have any interaction with any the individuals this e-mail chain, whether with Brock Johnson Ms. Walter Jonathan Davis, regards the CREW FOIA request?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. No, dont recall any interactions with them. Okay. After you -14 this request. Sorry. want make sure you complete the answer.
After you left the State Department and moved over White House Counsels office, did you keep touch with Brock Johnson regards CREWs FOIA request? dont recall doing so, no. Did you all during the time frame keep (121 124)
124
Did you any point see review any
letter
from
DHS response similar request from CREW? No. dont recall seeing DHS letter. Okay. you recall reviewing CREWs request DHS? No. you recall ever reviewing you recall reviewing the CREW request the State Department? Ive obviously seen that more recently, now that its been the press. dont recall whether saw the actual request back 2012 2013 when these e-mails were sent. Okay. believe you left the State Department March around that time frame? That sounds around right. 2013. the time you when you left the State Department, did you have understanding how the State Department was going respond CREWs request?
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125 No, dont no. Did Ms. Walter communicate with you any conversation during any conversations whether the State Department would respond CREW that had that has responsive records? dont recall that, no.
MS. COTCA: One more. Samuelson Deposition Exhibit marked for identification, retained counsel.) Ms. Walter, youve been shown whats been marked Exhibit 11.
MR. BREWSTER: think you mean -12 sorry, Ms. Samuelson.
And whats marked youve been shown whats marked Exhibit 11. And again, this e-mail chain amongst State Department officials August 2013 about FOIA requests submitted the State Department, including the CREW request. Yes. Sorry. Sure. Let know once youve had chance look it. Yeah, just lot pages youve given
127 communications with anybody else White House Counsels office? Not that know of. Okay.
MS. COTCA: Okay. think can off the record.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
VIDEO SPECIALIST: are going off the record 12:55. recess was taken.)
VIDEO SPECIALIST: are back the record 13:52. MS. COTCA: Ms. Samuelson, before you the corrected copy with the new unredacted information Exhibit And well that just minute. Okay. Beforehand, can have you look Exhibit for just minute? Okay. Ive got it. Which the e-mail chain that begins
126 me. Its five pages, believe. Okay, Ive reviewed it. Okay. Thank you.
Did anybody from the State Department contact you regards the CREW request keep you date with respect the CREW request during this time frame August 2013? No. you know anybody from the State Department communicated with anybody White House Counsels office, other than you, about the CREW request any the other FOIA requests this e-mail?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Foundation.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. And
objection,
form. They didnt communicate with about this while was White House Counsels office. least dont recall any communications about it. Right. you know there was any (125 128)
128 with e-mail from Jonathan Davis you, March 5th, 2013.
Are looking the same one? are. Okay. Great. That first e-mail, Mr. Jonathan Davis wrote you asking well, about the CREW request, thanking you for following and saying, understand the next steps for IPS to, and the remaining the information redacted. discussion was held off the record.) MS. COTCA: Did you have opportunity review this e-mail unredacted form for your deposition today?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Calls for privileged. going direct her not answer.
MS. COTCA: just asking she
reviewed unredacted. not asking about the content the information the e-mail.
MR. BREWSTER: Youre asking youre
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129 asking she saw unredacted version this e-mail?
MS. COTCA: Yes.
MR. BREWSTER: When?
MS. COTCA: preparation for her
deposition
today.
MR. BREWSTER: going ask her going instruct her not answer that question.
MS. COTCA: Okay. MS. COTCA: Sitting here today, you recall what the next steps for IPS were that Mr. Davis referred Exhibit
MR. PEZZI: Objection. Calls for information subject the attorney-client privilege and the attorney work product doctrine. instruct the witness not answer except the extent she can answer with yes whether not she recalls.
MS. COTCA: Well, the question was just she recalls. There was nothing about the
131
During this time, who from the White House well, let direct you the last e-mails this e-mail chain page fourth page. Its back front and back sided here. From Patrick Scholl Sheryl Walter, dated March 28, 2013, where Mr. Scholl wrote Ms. Walter, believe that the White House was tracking these cases. you see that? do. Okay. And then, actually, thats response earlier e-mail Mr. Scholl from Edgar Jaramillo, who understand well, says right here hes within IPS office. His e-mail dated March 27, 2013, where hes informing State Department officials that tasked S/ES-CR and IRM with the attached request regarding S/Clintons private e-mails. you see that? Yes. And then which the White House has also also had interest knowing about from
130 substance the e-mail.
MR. PEZZI: And she limits her answer whether not she recalls, she may answer. not recall. Thank you.
Okay. You can put that aside. can
look
Exhibit now.
Have you had chance review it? did. looked through it. Okay. Before were the record. Okay. And just the record clear, this e-mail chain between State Department officials spanning from March 27, 2013, through May 2013, about the CREW request. And the subject line says and S/Clintons e-mail. that accurate representation? believe all these individuals are State Department officials, but dont know that. Okay. Well, Ill represent you that received this document from the State Department the discovery this case, ... (129 132)
132 FOIA. you know who from the White House had interest knowing about this FOIA March 2013? dont.
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form.
Foundation.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. not. Okay. you know who Mr. Scholl was referring his March 28, 2013, e-mail above, when said the White House was tracking these cases? Who from the White House was referring to?
MR. BREWSTER: Same objection. not. Nor know who Mr. Scholl is. Okay. During your time White House Counsels office from March 2013 through, believe you said May 2014? April. April. Sorry. Thank you.
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133
April 2014. Were you aware the White House tracking following any FOIA requests from any the other agencies?
MR. BREWSTER: Object. Including the State Department?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. Outside the scope.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. Not, not not that can think here today. And want point you back Exhibit Got it. Sorry. They were out order. problem.
And again looking Ms. Walters e-mail
you January 10, 2013, where shes informing you that the State Department going interpreting the CREW FOIA request for official e-mail accounts rather than personal e-mail accounts.
Did you that point, any point during all this e-mail traffic about the CREW
135 think discussed earlier, dont remember speaking with Cheryl with this request. Well, then, focusing then your discussions with Ms. Walter. Wouldnt that have been logical piece information for you raise Ms. Walter when discussing the CREW CREWs FOIA request, and how the State Department was going respond CREW?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form.
MR. PEZZI: Same objection. dont know the extent which knew about the the details the FOIA request. dont know the extent. Nor recall the extent conversations with Ms. Walter. Okay. But you read was your practice read the e-mails that you received? Yes. Okay. were looking -19 hope so. Okay. Good. mean, especially since you responded -22 Yes.
134 request, raise Ms. Walter, anybody else who you may have discussed with the State Department about the CREW request, the e-mail address that you were aware that Secretary Clinton used for State Department business?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form.
Foundation.
MR. PEZZI: Same objections. didnt know the extent she was using for State Department business the time. may have raised it, but dont recall. Did you recall mean, excuse me. Did you raise the e-mail account that Secretary Clinton used for State Department business, which you were aware and again during the time span all this e-mail traffic about the CREW request during any conversations that you had with Ms. with Ms. Cheryl Mills about the CREW request?
MR. BREWSTER: Objection. Form. Foundation.
MR. PEZZI: Same objections. (133 136)
136 Ms. Walters e-mail. would hope read it. Okay. were speaking about the e-mail from January 10, 2013, and this e-mail chain. And question is, wouldnt that point, when Ms. Walter informed you writing that the State Department was going interpret CREWs FOIA request ask for official accounts rather than personal e-mail accounts, wouldnt have been logical piece information